RIP Stafford HMV - Administrators called in, Jan 2013

Gramaisc said:

BBC spreading rumours that administrators have been appointed and shares suspended...

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Gramaisc said:

BBC spreading rumours that administrators have been appointed and shares suspended...

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I am afraid this is correct according to my source

Just heard the same on the wireless, was just a matter of time. Who buys CDs and DVDs from a shop nowadays? Unless you need it that day its easier to get online for cheaper.

Deloitte are busy, do they have a shop in town?

£300m loan refused

1JKz said:

That part of the Guildhall is going for a song, actually i don't think i'm using the term correctly, was almost trying to be clever.
...that part of town is looking a little drab now.

I hope (never going to happen) that the council reinstate that end of the Guildhall to how it looked pre 00's, i haven't pictures from the late 90s but from what i remember, it was nice and quaint, you could walk upstairs without battling through sports goods!

There was a mezzanine, there was a coffee shop, a fountain even, is that right? any oldies remember?

As for HMV, such a shame but if you don't put on the armour for battle, you'll die in vain.

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I think it is a double-edged sword with HMV. On the one hand they have been masters of their own downfall. Only 10 years back the Group was worth around £1 billion. If they had used that financial clout & their huge brand to good effect by promoting online and digital downloads then they could have played the likes of Amazon, Play.com and i-tunes at their own game. They failed to do that and that decision now looks catastrophic. Latterly they have tried to catch up but because they missed the boat initially it was never going to work.

On the otherhand however they have continued to employ people, keep High Street shops going and pay tax in the UK. The likes of Amazon pays no tax, has a few massive warehouses and whilst it employs people they are not necersarily in the UK. Ironically if HMV had gone down the digital / online route that I mentioned they would probably be a huge & powerful brand by now but like Amazon would probably be paying next to no tax. If large corporations are allowed to run their affairs without paying UK tax then how are those like HMV who play by the rules ever expected to compete? This is one of the biggest scandals of this collapse.

Gramaisc said:

The story of the last fifty years.

I do my best to avoid giving money to businesses that behave in an underhand manner.

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I guess you can't really blame people for going on price, especially in these austere times. If a company operates through the internet then it is always going to be more cost effective than the competitor who has a chain of High St shops that have huge rents & staffing costs. That doesn't excuse the tax arrangements though, that is where the High Street shop gets a raw deal.
If we all continue voting with our wallets & keep embracing the convienience of on-line (and the online sales growth figures show no sign of tailing off) then we will continue to see towns and cities gradually turn into barren wastelands
What happens to Waterstones when everyone starts downloading books onto tablets? What happens to WHSmith when people do the same with magazines and papers?
The Government must wake up and sort out the Taxation mess. Local Authorities and Local High Streets must wake up to the fact that they must become more competitive, reduce rates and reinvent themselves or die.

Supermarkets also have a huge part to play in the collapse of the high street. Walk into a supermarket and you can buy practically anything you wish, usually at the more competitive price than on the high street.

Their master plan is coming to fruition.


Oh and the HMV administrators decision to refuse to accept pre-bought gift cards is nothing short of theft in my opinion.

bigbluewolf said:

Supermarkets also have a huge part to play in the collapse of the high street. Walk into a supermarket and you can buy practically anything you wish, usually at the more competitive price than on the high street.

Their master plan is coming to fruition.


Oh and the HMV administrators decision to refuse to accept pre-bought gift cards is nothing short of theft in my opinion.

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Even the once almighty Supermarkets are starting to be hit by online as well though - look at recent results coming out of the likes of Tesco and Morrisons. Morrisons is a real case in point as they don't have an online presence and boy is that hurting them. Running huge Supermarkets with all the employment, energy costs and logistics that goes with it isn't a cheap business. I'm not sure that being undercut by offshore tax dodging was in their masterplan either

The main issue for HMV is that very few people buy CDs and DVDs on a whim, very few browse the store looking for something to watch that day. You know a film or album is due out, so you have a heads up and can order in advance. So why use a real shop?

Franklin_Delano_Roosevelt said:

Even the once almighty Supermarkets are starting to be hit by online as well though - look at recent results coming out of the likes of Tesco and Morrisons. Morrisons is a real case in point as they don't have an online presence and boy is that hurting them. Running huge Supermarkets with all the employment, energy costs and logistics that goes with it isn't a cheap business. I'm not sure that being undercut by offshore tax dodging was in their masterplan either

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Tesco control 30% of the UK grocery market and have over 2,000 stores in the UK. In 2010 they made a profit of £3.4bn, yet they will still go to great lengths to avoid paying tax. Using complex legal structures Tesco has avoided stamp duty land tax to the tune of £90-£100m and £23m in stamp duty.

Tesco has its headquarters in the sleepy Hertfordshire town of Cheshunt. Something else that you can find there is Cheshunt Overseas, a limited liability partnership that has enabled Tesco to avoid £16m in tax through overseas business rules.

The sums Tesco has avoided may not be as much as Green or Vodafone, but hey, every little helps!
Source :- UK Uncut http://www.ukuncut.org.uk/targets/2

Sk84goal said:

Tesco control 30% of the UK grocery market and have over 2,000 stores in the UK. In 2010 they made a profit of £3.4bn, yet they will still go to great lengths to avoid paying tax. Using complex legal structures Tesco has avoided stamp duty land tax to the tune of £90-£100m and £23m in stamp duty.

Tesco has its headquarters in the sleepy Hertfordshire town of Cheshunt. Something else that you can find there is Cheshunt Overseas, a limited liability partnership that has enabled Tesco to avoid £16m in tax through overseas business rules.

The sums Tesco has avoided may not be as much as Green or Vodafone, but hey, every little helps!
Source :- UK Uncut http://www.ukuncut.org.uk/targets/2

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I wasn't for a moment suggesting that the Supermarkets aren't guilty of "offshoring" all I was saying is that they too are having to adapt to the way they operate in an ever changing retail landscape. Of course they have broad shoulders to do this but will probably close some store in the process as they focus more on online activity - if they do this it will mean putting people out of work, just like with HMV.

Back onto HMV and the gift vouchers, I hope this is another nail in the coffin of that consumer rip off. A system where people lend money to retailers at a zero interest rate and where the store can 'acquire' the money spent if it goes bust or the voucher 'expires'.

Franklin_Delano_Roosevelt said:

Back onto HMV and the gift vouchers, I hope this is another nail in the coffin of that consumer rip off. A system where people lend money to retailers at a zero interest rate and where the store can 'acquire' the money spent if it goes bust or the voucher 'expires'.

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Well said. HMV and others who sell gift cards and subsequently go into administration, need to be made to honour them.

i must admit, i download most music and movies. if i were to buy a dvd on a whim it would be from a supermarket as im in one most days and its a lot cheaper. online and supermarkets are to blame here yes but u have to adapt your business to suit demand. i can whinge at tesco selling cakes but i just make sure its personal and something ypu couldnt buy in a supermarket. theyl probly be the end of all of us to be honest

by the way i legally download - i aint no pirate

bigbluewolf said:

Well said. HMV and others who sell gift cards and subsequently go into administration, need to be made to honour them.

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When something like this happens it always helps to go back to basics, this is a tried and tested method used personally on a number of occasions and has yet to fail to get the desired results. What you do is straight away tell the poor sod on the counter that they are about to get a hard time, that they really don't get paid enough for that kind of thing and that if they'd like to get their manager over instead they may be able to avoid your vitriol. You then calmly, but loudly, insist that the manager honours the agreement. You make sure you insult them, but not too much and never break the law, and let them know you will not be leaving the store without satisfaction. It helps to get the till staff onside, so make a few digs at their managers expense that at the same time bigs them up. It stops them getting involved.

Never failed yet, although admittedly I've never had a gift voucher from a company in administration. If I had no result in say 30 minutes of this I would help myself to goods to the value of my gift voucher and leave the store, admittedly it would have to be headphones and stuff like that as its all you can get your hands on. If you get nicked admit nothing and ask for a court case, insisting you tried to pay but they wouldn't let you. It will cost them a lot more to pursue than they will lose, something the creditors don't like.

Please be aware that I accept no responsibility should you follow these guidelines and they go wrong, but it is what I would do.