littleme
250,000th poster!
Ah, you've gone all X-files on me
-
Welcome to Stafford Forum. Please or sign-up and start posting!
Veggie / Vegan Discussion
- Thread starter henryscat
- Start date
henryscat
Well-Known Forumite
henryscat
Well-Known Forumite
Let me leave you with a couple of thoughts. The "norm" in society is that most people believe it is wrong to cause unnecessary harm to animals and I'd re-iterate that if you consider what is necessary and what isn't then that points firmly at not eating animal products, if you apply that "norm".Well the discussion is about being a vegetarian/vegan so in the context of the society we live in the norm would be someone who eats at least some meat. Given that the definition of extreme is "furthest from the centre or a given point.", your views on animals and their role in our diet is extreme, i.e, you are furthest from the norm as the norm is someone who eats at least some meat.
I find the tone of your posts aggressive, You preach, you make no attempt to see things from other people's point of view or perspective. Because you see the ideal of doing no harm as what should be the norm you seem to be unable to understand or comprehend that that isn't actually societies norm at all.
And on that note "I'm out"
Secondly, you mentioned being unable to see things from other people's perspective, which I think is a very unfair thing to say. Revisiting a previous post you stated your (not mine!) perspective was
kyoto49 said:
Based on your perspective, your stated beliefs (not mine), I said that being vegetarian and consuming dairy/eggs directly contravened your own stated belief (that is a factual matter, not one of opinion, e.g. it is a matter of fact that a dairy cow can never express her natural behaviour of looking after a calf because it is taken away). Just to use the politician's favourite phrase - "lets be clear": you stated what you thought was wrong, I stated that consumption of dairy contravened that (I am happy to explain that bit in detail if you are interested) and thinking about it so does meat. I thought it was interesting that you didn't reply on that aspect at all.
All I'd urge you to do is thinking honestly and openly whether what you choose to eat, really does stand by those things that you said.
henryscat
Well-Known Forumite
Humans can be perfectly healthy on a vegan diet without supplements. I don't think anyone in the country is consuming an entirely local diet. Are the animals you eat, the chickens that laid your eggs and the cows producing your milk all consuming feed grown locally? Or indeed even raised locally? I think the anwer to those is almost certainly "no". You can't equate flying food in with what's "natural" - supermarkets fly apples in half way around the world, yet we can grow all the apples we wish to eat in the UK. You wouldn't consider apples "unnatural". I assume the objection to transporting food a distance is an environmental one? In which case, don't forget that however you look at it a meat/dairy based diet has by far the largest environmental impact. As it happens, the UK does in theory have enough agricultural land to feed the population on a vegan diet.
clara jayne
A few posts under my belt
"As a purely economic matter, intensive farming is not going to disappear as long as people consume animal products, it is completely unrealistic to think otherwise. "
You know what difference it makes to become vegetarian?,
It means that animals are not being forced to breed to keep up with supply and demand. It means that less animals are being born to die. It means that less killing needs to happen and also means that people are eating healthier by not having so much meat on their plates. ( if any) people are obese enough as it is and with figures showing how much cattle are being killed everyday just to keep up demand it's hardly surprising. Meat is the most fattening thing of all.
You know what difference it makes to become vegetarian?,
It means that animals are not being forced to breed to keep up with supply and demand. It means that less animals are being born to die. It means that less killing needs to happen and also means that people are eating healthier by not having so much meat on their plates. ( if any) people are obese enough as it is and with figures showing how much cattle are being killed everyday just to keep up demand it's hardly surprising. Meat is the most fattening thing of all.
clara jayne
A few posts under my belt
Henry'scat. I agree with most of what you're saying. But please do not dare to compare people who eat cakes with eggs in and say they're just as bad as a meat eater.
I do not buy real cows milk I buy almond. It's just cake I eat. And I do not think that eggs compare to a already born and alive cow lined up in a slaughter house waiting for its turn.
I do not buy real cows milk I buy almond. It's just cake I eat. And I do not think that eggs compare to a already born and alive cow lined up in a slaughter house waiting for its turn.
henryscat
Well-Known Forumite
What I'd say is this.... Whilst doing less harm may always be "better" than doing more harm, that doesn't make it right to still cause harm. I think from what you've said that you recognise that an animal values its life. Applying what you already believe to be true would point to not consuming eggs and going vegan - and I'd really urge you to consider that.
A chicken values their own life just as much as a cow or any other species of animal does. In the case of eggs, the exploitation and suffering may not be as obvious but it is there. Male chicks are crushed or gassed at around a day old because they are of no use to the egg industry (they use different breeds of chickens to chickens that are killed for meat). The female chickens that are kept to lay eggs do not lead a nice existence - even free range ones and it disrupts their natural behaviour for eggs to be continually taken away from. When their rate of egg laying drops off, those egg laying chickens end up in the same slaughter house as chickens killed for meat. Ultimately the egg laying chicken has the same fate as the cow you mention. Arguably the egg laying chicken has a worse life than a broiler chicken because they are kept alive in unpleasant conditions for a lot longer.
As far as cakes go, you can make seriously nice cakes without any need for eggs. A couple of websites that might be useful are - http://www.theppk.com/recipes/ and http://fleursvegankitchen.com/. I'm sure there's lots more out there too, but they're a good start.
If you would like to find out more about going vegan and the subject in general - www.vegankit.com is a good start. I also happily answer any questions on going vegan or the thinking around veganism.
clara jayne
A few posts under my belt
It's just like you think being vegetarian isn't good enough. Like my desire to avoid meat is pointless.
I'm still bringing down meat demand. Eggs are in cake. I never eat or buy them unless they're in cake. And same with ice cream. I buy almond milk.
I'm just tired of vegans telling me it's not good enough. Or pushing on me to turn vegan. Instead of saying. Well done. You're helping to bring down the demand for meat. And by doing so you're making a difference.
Mikinton
Well-Known Forumite
shoes
Well-Known Forumite
shoes
Well-Known Forumite
proactive
Enjoying a drop of red.
You either are or you aren't Vegan. You're picking and choosing and have clearly chosen cake over hens.
That's fine but to then have the cheek to comment on others choices and criticise them is taking the piss, frankly!