Dangerous pedestrian crossing

cj1 said:

Tricky one this. I was under the understanding priority would be with the driver as they would be mid maneuver when the man turns green so should be allowed to finish said manover. But if the pedestrian started there manuver first then they have porority.

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From memory I don't think the Highway Code covers what happens when the Green man is lit, it just covers pedestrians crossing the road that you are turning into and they definitely have priority over the car.

gilesjuk said:

Here's a screengrab from the video my friend uploaded (facebook only or I would share it here). You can quite clearly see the car going over the crossing while the green man is on. About two more cars go over after it too.

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Not sure if this crossing is still the same but it used to have the audible sounders when the Geen Man was lit. This is obviously an even more dangerous situation if a blind person is reliant upon the sounders to tell them it isn't safe to cross.

gilesjuk said:

The visibility of which is dictated by which direction they are crossing in.

But the point is, the crossing is controlled, it is beeping and a blind person will be assuming it is safe to cross when in reality it isn't.

The systems need to take that into account, not everyone can see what is going on.

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Which direction are these badly driven cars coming from?

There is no 'jaywalking' offence here, as there is in many other jurisdictions. A pedestrian is quite free to cross without the Green Man being lit.

A motorist turning right could quite easily find himself stuck, particularly when confronted by amber-gamblers proceeding into town and either sit blocking the junction or proceed across the Green Man - it would seem reasonable to do that, if necessary and if the crossing is not actually in use, but certainly not if it is in use. If anybody using the crossing has crossed, then venturing over the crossing before the lights for the motor traffic change seems reasonable, if potentially illegal.

The crux of the matter is that pedestrians should be allowed priority, but that it not usually the modern way...

I have long campaigned for a pedestrian priority at Newport/station rd junction, so far to no avail.......

basil said:

I have long campaigned for a pedestrian priority at Newport/station rd junction, so far to no avail.......

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That has the 'advantage' of being so stupidly bad that most pedestrians take a supreme level of care.


Or avoid it altogether.

gilesjuk said:

Never knew that rule. So this makes this junction even more badly designed then, there genuinely needs to either be lights on both sides or some way to determine if anyone is turning right, then avoid having the green man show when people are potentially driving that way.

Really amazed nobody has been killed.

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Luckily because it doesn't take long to cross, that's probably why, I cross this every day, it's always a risk, the best part is when you do go on red, okay I know wait for the green man, but you can tell by the other lights, obviously if it's green on the lichfield road aslong as you check for cars turning in it's alright, and on the way to riverway is red obviously..

But the problem is, people don't indicate either sometimes, so you cross (it does take a while for them to change) and.. you nearly get hit by a car, the other option is wait for the green man, then nearly get hit by a car anyway, so yeah.

I personally hate the crossing opposite more, so always stick to that side of the road.

Someone that doesn't know this road, or can't move as quick crossing, Is in big danger I agree.

It's not a very nice road at all, cyclicts like using the pavement, which you know I don't blame them fully as the road is dangerous, but the paths are narrow, that's another thing I've nearly been hit by.

There's also been times it's been on green, but by time you can cross it's back to red!!!! , the worst crossing has to be by the cinema though, I once hanged around there for 10 miniutes just talking to a friend, and there was about 5 incidents of cars/ people on foot shouting, and 2-3 close calls.

It's been a LOOONG time since I last read the Highway Code( I don't need to because I'm always right) but I was always under the impression that drivers should give way to pedestrians. Cars are much easier to repair than pedestrians.

Drivers are 'officially' meant to do and not do lots of things that aren't really taken seriously now.

For example, there was a time when two of the places you weren't meant to park were 'on a bend' and 'opposite a junction' - now you can park on the bend opposite the Henry Street junction with complete impunity, it seems, or at least it has been deemed 'acceptable' for the last twenty years.

There is a Real Highway Code out there somewhere....


There was a time when a pedestrian walking on the footpath of a major road would have had (actual) priority over a motor vehicle turning off across him into a minor road - good luck with trying that now..

So what should happen in this situation.

Should the silver car stop because he approaching a red light?

(I'm just playing devil's advocate here.)

Mikinton said:

So what should happen in this situation.

Should the silver car stop because he approaching a red light?

(I'm just playing devil's advocate here.)

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Clearly not !!

The lights on Corporation street got trimmed a few years ago when people turning in were stopping upon seeing the red light....

Mikinton said:

So what should happen in this situation.

Should the silver car stop because he approaching a red light?

(I'm just playing devil's advocate here.)

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That red light would be red if the silver car was turning right whilst the Lichfield Road lights were green, it's not really relevant. The Wait light is still lit, so the Red Man should be showing to the pedestrian.

Gramaisc said:

That red light would be red if the silver car was turning right whilst the Lichfield Road lights were green, it's not really relevant. The Wait light is still lit, so the Red Man should be showing to the pedestrian.

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... and he shouldn't stop if the little man on the crossing was showing 'green' because he can't see it. ..... So the only reason he should have for stopping is if there is a pedestrian in the road (or a vehicle blocking his way).

but what if the silver car had to wait for the red light to create a gap to complete there right turn it started when his light was green. the pedestrian light would be green as it completed its turn

cj1 said:

but what if the silver car had to wait for the red light to create a gap to complete there right turn it started when his light was green. the pedestrian light would be green as it completed its turn

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How would the silver car know the pedestrian light was green? Unless there's a pedestrian on the crossing, he's going to go.

Mikinton said:

... and he shouldn't stop if the little man on the crossing was showing 'green' because he can't see it. ..... So the only reason he should have for stopping is if there is a pedestrian in the road (or a vehicle blocking his way).

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If the Wait light isn't lit, then the driver has no idea if the Man is Red or Green and he will have to use his initiative, which will usually (these days) mean pushing his way through - he should, of course, give way to pedestrians anyway, but that is largely wishful thinking now.

In the situation pictured, an observant driver can tell that the Red Man should still be showing - but he should be ready for the pedestrian to step out anyway.

The fact that there is a pedestrian waiting should be a fair clue that a Green Man is a distinct possibility, if the Wait light wasn't lit..

It is a crap crossing, but drivers can play a part in making it less crap.

the council could fix the issue by adjusting the timings of the lights but they need informing of the issue first

I suspect that the 'official' idea is that the 'overlap', when all lights are red, should be enough for the right-turn vehicles to clear the junction before the crossing lights go green - the problem is largely one of people on the inbound direction running the red lights and not leaving enough time for the turning cars to clear before the crossing actuates.

I probably shouldn't do it, but it is my habit here, and at the other end of Riverway, to flash the blocked cars if I am approaching the lights as they go red and I am going to stop ( and if I'm confident that nobody is going to overtake me to run the lights), just so they have a bit more time to complete the manoeuvre safely.