Coronavirus.

Carole

Carole

Well-Known Forumite
cj1 said:
My employer Has done a lot to keep people safe. PPE is available to all employees. changes made to working practices to keep 2m apart individual bottles of hand sanitizer. posters 2m distance ensures your existance Just to name few at no point did I feel at risk.
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Out of curiosity, who is your employer and what do you do?
You’re obviously extremely lucky that your employer has pulled out all the stops to keep you all safe.
But where did all the PPE come from to ALL your employees when even nursing homes can’t get hold of it? Just curious.
 
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Withnail

Withnail

Well-Known Forumite
Wow.

I think a lot of people aren't grasping one significant element of what we are doing. We are staying home so that hospitals do not become overrun, go above their capacity to treat, and start making decisions as to who lives or dies on the hoof.

In the absence of finding a better one, this graph highlights the danger we currently face -

GptfwLw.png

- and while it doesn't exactly fit where we are, it is still crucial in picturing what we face.

@cj1 is quite right that the alternatives are not without risk, and is right that an economic slump comes with huge societal issues, of which public health is a screaming part, but one would argue that we are not at that point yet.

At the moment we are still in an health crisis, and our management of it should be driven by an health agenda.

In time it may become, if the Eco(nomic)-Warriors of Wall St. wish it, an economic crisis - perhaps they will stage an Extinction Rebellion of their own - i suggest we cross that particular bridge when we arrive at it, what?

Meanwhile , i'm holding out hope that we really are all in this together, i mean, you never know?
 
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Cue

Cue

Well-Known Forumite
Carole said:
But where did all the PPE come from to ALL your employees when even nursing homes can’t get hold of it? Just curious.
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I’m under the impression that a mixture of incredibly rigid procurement procedures and a need for a specific grade and certification is the problem with health and care services not getting PPE. There’s not a supply shortage, just a common sense shortage high up the ladder
 
Withnail

Withnail

Well-Known Forumite
There comes a time, in every rabble's life, when it becomes roused.

You'll want more than a gate when that happens if you are on the wrong side of it.
 
tek-monkey

tek-monkey

wanna see my snake?
cj1 said:
I want to get back to some sort or normality in a safe manor which I believe can be achieved with the appropriate control measures in place. my employer Has done a lot to keep people safe. PPE is available to all employees. changes made to working practices to keep 2m apart individual bottles of hand sanitizer. posters 2m distance ensures your existance Just to name few at no point did I feel at risk.
If you feel your employer isn't doing enough to keep you safe you should raise these with your employer every one has the right to feel safe whilst doing there job
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I work in education, we can't use the 2m rule because classrooms would then fit 6 kids at best and we have a few thousand. Many use public transport to get in, the air con circulates every cough, and you're relying on children to properly use ppe which we don't currently have.

Your employer is an exception (who are they? I've never worked anywhere with enough space to social distance!), feel free to return to work but don't expect everyone else to.
 
That-Crazy-Rat-Lady

That-Crazy-Rat-Lady

Well-Known Forumite
tek-monkey said:
I work in education, we can't use the 2m rule because classrooms would then fit 6 kids at best and we have a few thousand. Many use public transport to get in, the air con circulates every cough, and you're relying on children to properly use ppe which we don't currently have.

Your employer is an exception (who are they? I've never worked anywhere with enough space to social distance!), feel free to return to work but don't expect everyone else to.
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I went into school last week to care for key workers kids - 6 of them.

I was with them all day - it was IMPOSSIBLE to make them socially distance!

6! I can't imagine how we expect 2000 to work!
 
Mikinton

Mikinton

Well-Known Forumite
@tek-monkey

But Education is low-risk anyway. Children are at a much lower risk of dying, and the average age of teachers these days is lower than it used to be 20 years ago, so there's a reduced risk there. (Not sure about dinner ladies, office staff etc.) And if there's any teachers left over the age of 45, they can work from home on marking and lesson plans; just stay away from the chalk face.

The biggest problem with opening up the schools is spreading the virus outside the school community. So no visits to granny, kids.

One thing you might like to consider: there's a suggestion that kids from poorer backgrounds are falling even further behind their better-off classmates while they're not in school
 
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proactive

proactive

Enjoying a drop of red.
Mikinton said:
@tek-monkey

But Education is low-risk anyway. Children are at a much lower risk of dying, and the average age of teachers these days is lower than it used to be 20 years ago, so there's a reduced risk there. (Not sure about dinner ladies, office staff etc.) And if there's any teachers left over the age of 45, they can work from home on marking and lesson plans; just stay away from the chalk face.

The biggest problem with opening up the schools is spreading the virus outside the school community. So no visits to granny, kids.

One thing you might like to consider: there's a suggestion that kids from poorer backgrounds are falling even further behind their better-off classmates while they're not in school
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How about kids bringing home the virus to vulnerable parents? Or should the parents simply not bother seeing their kids again for the foreseeable future?
 
Mikinton

Mikinton

Well-Known Forumite
proactive said:
How about kids bringing home the virus to vulnerable parents? Or should the parents simply not bother seeing their kids again for the foreseeable future?
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Indeed. That is a problem. How many parents are in this situation? Do you have figures?

Maybe the children could continue being taught from home, with teachers sending out homework. Something for the over-45 teachers to do.

it's a tricky decision for the vulnerable parents to weigh up. Do you want your children to fall behind in their schooling so that your risk of contracting the virus is reduced? Presumably it's a question of how able the child is to catch up, and the overall risk to the parent.
 
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proactive

proactive

Enjoying a drop of red.
Mikinton said:
Indeed. That is a problem. How many parents are in this situation? Do you have figures?

Maybe the children could continue being taught from home, with teachers sending out homework. Something for the over-45 teachers to do.
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I'd be amazed if the government had figures, never mind me.

Personally I wouldn't be restarting schools until September. See how things are then when industry has restarted. One thing less to factor in to possible virus spread. Let's face it, nothing worthwhile goes on in schools after mid June anyway as they're all demob happy.
 
Mikinton

Mikinton

Well-Known Forumite
I think you missed an "in normal years" after the "Let's face it," . .... but point taken.

I think it may be less about teaching and more about childminding and some respite for parents. Whether it's worth it for the increased risk of spreading the virus is a decision I'm glad I'm not making.
 
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That-Crazy-Rat-Lady

That-Crazy-Rat-Lady

Well-Known Forumite
Mikinton said:
Maybe the children could continue being taught from home, with teachers sending out homework. Something for the over-45 teachers to do.
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So young teachers go in and have lessons as normal but when students have an older or vulnerable teacher they sit in ordered silence and complete set work?

Hmmm can't see that happening, they would still have to be supervised!

I don't think our school would run if all the teachers over 45 stayed at home.

There's a bit more to teaching than making lesson plans and marking...
 
Glam

Glam

Mad Cat Woman
That-Crazy-Rat-Lady said:
I went into school last week to care for key workers kids - 6 of them.

I was with them all day - it was IMPOSSIBLE to make them socially distance!

6! I can't imagine how we expect 2000 to work!
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Sometimes, we have to physically restrain patients. That can mean upwards of 6 people putting hands on one person. So in reality, that is a minimum of 7 adults all breathing close to each other, 6 possibly in the line of fire through spit. If it carries on for a while, you have to bring others in to swop out the original restrainers. So swop that minimum of 6 to 13. Yes, we have ppe available, all use it. But in a situation such as a kick off, no-one has the time to grab a pair of gloves or even goggles. Mental health is so different to normal health work.
 
That-Crazy-Rat-Lady

That-Crazy-Rat-Lady

Well-Known Forumite
proactive said:
Personally I wouldn't be restarting schools until September. See how things are then when industry has restarted. One thing less to factor in to possible virus spread. Let's face it, nothing worthwhile goes on in schools after mid June anyway as they're all demob happy.
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I'm itching to get back to work but honestly can't see it happening before September!

Even if they send Yr10&12 in first I teach X3 Yr10 classes with 32 students in each set.

To distance them I could only have 8 in each classroom - it's a logical nightmare!

I am currently creating booklets with information and tasks, meeting virtually weekly and setting tests to check knowledge and understanding.

The most time consuming thing is chasing those who haven't done work and calling home. So frustrating!
 
Mikinton

Mikinton

Well-Known Forumite
That-Crazy-Rat-Lady said:
So young teachers go in and have lessons as normal but when students have an older or vulnerable teacher they sit in ordered silence and complete set work?

Hmmm can't see that happening, they would still have to be supervised!

I don't think our school would run if all the teachers over 45 stayed at home.

There's a bit more to teaching than making lesson plans and marking...
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I'm sure teachers are clever enough to address the issue of a class being unsupervised. Larger class sizes perhaps? Supply teachers?

Yeah, the "lesson plans and marking" is probably not going to happen. More likely it'll be "Right kids ..... we're going to watch a [two hour] video on the Terrible Tudors [or the Groovy Greeks .... whatever]. Half way through we'll have a break so you can get some exercise, and then we'll have a quick quiz. Then we'll watch the rest of the video, and have another quiz. ..... Now do any of you 5-year-olds know how to work this computer?"
 
Mikinton

Mikinton

Well-Known Forumite
That-Crazy-Rat-Lady said:
The most time consuming thing is chasing those who haven't done work and calling home. So frustrating!
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We met an ex-acquaintance of my wife's on our walk this morning - a DS teacher (my wife used to teach it in the days when it was called "cookery", before she became a SENCo). Anyway this teacher mentioned that the worst part was chasing up work they'd set and that they'd pretty much given up, at least as far as some classes were concerned.
 
That-Crazy-Rat-Lady

That-Crazy-Rat-Lady

Well-Known Forumite
Mikinton said:
I'm sure teachers are clever enough to address the issue of a class being unsupervised. Larger class sizes perhaps? Supply teachers?

Yeah, the "lesson plans and marking" is probably not going to happen. More likely it'll be "Right kids ..... we're going to watch a [two hour] video on the Terrible Tudors [or the Groovy Greeks .... whatever]. Half way through we'll have a break so you can get some exercise, and then we'll have a quick quiz. Then we'll watch the rest of the video, and have another quiz. ..... Now do any of you 5-year-olds know how to work this computer?"
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But larger class sizes defeats the point of social distancing....

This isn't directed at you specifically but I am really frustrated that this is the view of what teachers will do.

I am not just sat on my arse at home - I am virtually meeting all my Yr10&12 classes weekly, marking essays, planning detailed work booklets with new exam content and constantly chasing / supporting students.

When we return we certainly will NOT be watching videos, my school has very high expectations of both teachers and students - if we go back before September I will be teaching up until the bell rings for the summer holidays to provide students with the best possible education to support them in exams.

I have a record of outstanding exam results - I intent to keep it that way.

Although I am making time for a bit of Stafford-Forum-ing....
 
That-Crazy-Rat-Lady

That-Crazy-Rat-Lady

Well-Known Forumite
Mikinton said:
We met an ex-acquaintance of my wife's on our walk this morning - a DS teacher (my wife used to teach it in the days when it was called "cookery", before she became a SENCo). Anyway this teacher mentioned that the worst part was chasing up work they'd set and that they'd pretty much given up, at least as far as some classes were concerned.
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I haven't given up on any of my students.
 
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