Support Stafford Hospital

Doctor knows best.*

John Marwood said:

Twenty-three doctors were disciplined by the General Medical Council but allowed to carry on working

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*Well, apart from the one that had 'restrictions on practice' and the twenty two that were sent 'letters of advice'.

I have also been curious about the coroner’s role in all of this. My grandfather died in Stafford Hospital in 2007 and, because he died in hospital, the case had to go to the coroners court. Is this standard for all hospital deaths? In that case, even if the coroner wasn't receiving accurate information about the poor treatment causing the deaths surely they must have noticed that there were far more deaths than there should be?

The South Staffordshire coroner has a relative good reputation, his deputy less so

The coroner is basically a lawyer who represents the Government

It would on the face of it appear odd that any 'trends' were not apparently picked up

As a relative you do have an opportunity to comment in court but circumstances often prevent clear thought

Milgram's experiment probably helps explain why complaints took so long to be heard. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

My family did make representations in the coroner's court, but as they are not medical experts, the doctor's assertions were accepted. As you'd expect to be the case 99% of the time.

Which reminds me, there's never been a list of the names of these 400-1200 people has there? The ones I am aware of are the ones whose relatives have released through Cure the NHS. Has the NHS contacted families where there are now questions over the death, or are these poor people just statistics?

joshua said:

The only way this should end is with some of these heartless uncaring swines gripping the bar at the bailey.

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Jeremy Hunt suggests that the cops should get involved - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-stoke-staffordshire-21393729 .

Just want to thank Mrs bailey, for bringing shame on stafford, shame on the hard working staff there at the moment doing their best (and turning it around into a great hospital)

Cheers, thanks, and goodbye.

Wonder how much she's making her own book- on TV press love her, pathetic,

I shall not stand by and let the hospital go.. time to stand up for the hospital and it's front line staff.

I've never seen so much biased crap in all my life, and in the end of the day if you have problems with the hospital simple, Don't go there, it's not costing you, and a hell of a lot of people have GREAT care there.

I'm not sure how, but it's time to turn the tides- enough is enough- You can support mrs bailey, and her press buddies all you want, this is are hospital- ARE HOSPITAL- that's IMPROVED massively.

you've made your point and i'm greatfull- things have imrpoved from years ago, i'm not sure why it took you so long to speak out- but i'm glad you did- but please, give the current hospital and it's staff a chance

Stafford- you mention stafford now to anyone, it's the place with the terrible hospital great

Proud to be a staffordian,

Some of the stories are just not believable, why would you not mention people in soiled beds earlier for 4 days straight, even your own relative, or drinking from plant pots?? there is taps in every room.

And to those that have a go at front line staff- all i've heard and from my experiences- that they're caring great, and hard working the problem is because of funding, VERY understaffed- they're only human, things have improved though- thank goodness.

You even gave the nurses flowers.

Quite frankly, I know quite a few people with the same views as me, as much as i'll be hated for posting on here about this, because she is a god that made everyone realise the bad things going on

Shame it turned into a media hating bandwagon, and she just can't get enough, but she can't do anything at all wrong, even though it's clear she's loving the attention and milking it for all its' worth

Give it a rest and give the hospital a chance- why don't' you go and go visit, and take the press with you , to see how shocking it is now.

I agree with you Zylo, I know we are in the minority on stafford forum, but thats just the forum in the end, if we all agreed it would make for very boring threads.

In 2007 I spent a few weeks in Stafford Hospital, overall I was very well looked after by the nurses and Doctors.

The biggest problem at Stafford hospital that I experienced at the time was the lack of Nurses, not the care that they were giving!

Libzz said:

In 2007 I spent a few weeks in Stafford Hospital, overall I was very well looked after by the nurses and Doctors.

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ditto.. i was in for over 2 weeks in sep/oct 2011, and the standard of care & attention i got was amazing.. and i can't believe how hard all the nurses/staff worked! i genuinely don't think i've worked as hard as that for a whole week in my life, and they do it every day, for (i'm led to believe) bugger all pay..

i have been in regular attendance to the hospital as an outpatient since 2007, and i have seen a marked improvement in care.. i was even put on a cutting-edge drug for my bad AIDS that i have since found out other people with the same condition across the country are crying out for, but their PCTs won't let them have it, so i was very lucky that stafford hospital was so pro-active in that sense!

PeterD said:

I agree with you Zylo, I know we are in the minority on stafford forum...

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not necessarily..

people with minority views tend to be more vocal - i.e. their views are in the minority, so they are used to defending them to others and therefore are more eager to voice their opinion, and thus can come across as stronger/more authoritative than they really are.. the mere fact that this thread exists shows that people support stafford hospital .. i dare say that it's just because most people support stafford hospital that they haven't contributed - they just assume everyone else with any sense feels the same way, so someone will eventually come along to make their argument for them.. which is what zylo just did, i guess!

Zylo said:

Shame it turned into a media hating bandwagon, and she just can't get enough, but she can't do anything at all wrong, even though it's clear she's loving the attention and milking it for all its' worth

Give it a rest and give the hospital a chance- why don't' you go and go visit, and take the press with you , to see how shocking it is now.

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couldn't agree more.. exactly as you said, i commend julie bailey for blowing the whistle in the first instance, but she's turned in to a one (wo)man IRA - i.e. she's lost sight of what she's fighting for, and is now just in it for the violence..

what's the point of demanding change, and then not giving that thing/person a chance to implement those changes and demonstrate improvement?

gilbert grape said:

A very severe case of the minority spoiling it for the majority!

Accountability counts in any role you serve in, regardless of income and many forget that. I'm pretty sure that many things have happened in front of patients that haven't been reported due to the patient feeling ill and not wanting to kick up a fuss. Things that obvious that surely somebody at some point will report it back if you don't, if in that position?
I'm also pretty sure that there are many voices, on here and in the public domain, who have lots to say on the situation but have rarely been in the hospital, if at all.

Like it or not, there have been errors at all levels from Senior Management to Cleaners and that has to change.

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I still stand by what I said.
We need some more balanced views rather than "everything is crap, shut it down!" or "there's nothing wrong and you shouldn't say anything against the hospital!" When backed into a corner, anybody on either side of the argument will come out fighting. Again, I'd be interested to see how many peopl with strong views are expressing them on what they hear or read rather than what they have had to live through?
For the record, I am Diabetic and have been under hospital care since 1979, have been in and out of hospital as an in and out patient in that time. I have also lost both parents in the last 3 years and both were treated at the hospital. I have seen from the extremely good to the shocking, over a period and have also taken part in an official patients forum to feed back views, particulary to do with the outpatients clinic when there were problems.

Reading through a lot of this if I were Julie Bailey I would wonder why I bothered. I truly believe that what she did in uncovering and exposing what went on was truly heroic.

The argument now seems to be going that we collectively appreciate what you've done but would you now please just toddle off and leave everything alone & leave trusts to go back to doing what they were doing before - this should absolutely not happen and Julie's continued work will help make sure this is the case. The Public Inquiry is not the end of the story & I think that there is some sort of confusion that Julie is on a kind of twisted vendetta against Stafford Hospital - I believe her campaign is now much wider than that and has gathered National momentum, we've already seem announcements that half a dozen other trusts are set to be scrutinised.

The media are hell bent on continuing their campaign against Stafford Hospital and people, quick to blame someone are wrongly in my opinion focusing on Julie Bailey. I can understand where Julie is coming from, she wants criminal prosecutions and who can blame her? This hasn't happened yet & the idea that just because we've had an inquiry we are safe to carry on as normal is nonsense - there are still cases going on even now that are terrible, the recent face taping of a dummy to a child with respiratory problems is a prime example.

If Stafford Hospital shuts it will be down to the sickening events of 2005-09 and the continued media campaign. Time to face facts, we are unable as a Country to carry on funding public services as they have been in the past, the Nation is broke & NHS Trusts in particular are carrying massive debt burdens - Mid Staffs has already said that it can't afford to keep both Stafford and Cannock open, the Government only has one plan for the problem, scale back, sack people & shut things down - none of these things are Julie Bailey's fault, they are just the facts of where we are. People can choose to live in a "money is no object" dream world if they wish but it doesn't change anything.

I don't want the hospital closed anymore than anyone else but I am at least realistic about the situation the Trust finds itself in.

Glam said:

When she started beating him back

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Stafford hospital only has low mortality as it doesn't treat heart attack or strokes anymore or undergo higher risk surgeries - reason? it's not allowed to

Sigh, I have sat back from commenting on this thread as feel it is such an emotive area and tend to prefer my input on here to remain light hearted. however I feel the time has come for me to share my thoughts.

people died in that hospital due to the care they recieved, thats truly horrific.
In my opinion those responsible should have been held legally responsible. They still should.
Change has been bought about through the courage of those who have spoken out.

However, this inqury relates to incidents which happened 5 or more years ago and regardless of negative media coverage the hospital has made changes for the better. Clearly more work needs to take place, but there needs to be an opportunity for that to happen. An opportunity for the hospital to act on the findings of the inquiry otherwise whats the point of it?
I'm sure there will be those who will be thinking I wouldnt say that if it was my family member, please dont assume you know better.

I feel great sadness, that in my opinion, those who historically experienced such loss are now being used as a smoke screen to help make financial cuts because thats what I believe is happening.

If there isnt a fight to stop it, then I am quite sure Stafford hospital will go and sick, vulnerable, young and elderly Staffordian patients will be forced to travel to Stoke or further for the necessary care they need, at what human cost? Stafford continues to develop housing yet essential services are taken away. People are afraid of shouting up for Stafford hospital in fear of upsettting or offending those who have been forced to watch love ones suffer, but if we dont keep a hospital locally what further suffering will happen? how will other hospitals cope with the imapact of an influx of sick staffordians?

As someone with a young family and living with an incurable and progressive disease I have spent many hours at hospital, not just stafford, and have seen Stafford grow and improve since this began as it has battled to implement change.
Stafford needs a hospital...I need a hospital. One thats close to me, that I can trust, but that isnt going to happen if its not given the opportunity to do so.

I will sit back and wait for the wave of the forums back lash, but as a regular at hospital i felt the need to share my opinion, and it is just that, my opinion.

How can we possibly have any confidence in any hospital in this country when Cameron and Osborne will continue to introduce even more health service spending cuts on top of the current ongoing ones.
With all the good will and best nurses in the world delevering good helth care will become impossible and will be reserved for the extremely wealthy
Stafford hospital is broke,flat broke, but it is typical in this, not exceptional

If you want to know why your hospital or any other hospital will deteriorate swiftly in the coming months and years you need to educate yourself in commisioning based health care because this is and the new cuts not yet detailed will determine the length and quality of your life, where ever you seek treatment

I bet no one can even remember Cameron's campaign posters from the last election now

John Marwood said:

How can we possibly have any confidence in any hospital in this country when Cameron and Osborne will continue to introduce even more health service spending cuts on top of the current ongoing ones.
With all the good will and best nurses in the world delevering good helth care will become impossible and will be reserved for the extremely wealthy
Stafford hospital is broke,flat broke, but it is typical in this, not exceptional

If you want to know why your hospital or any other hospital will deteriorate swiftly in the coming months and years you need to educate yourself in commisioning based health care because this is and the new cuts not yet detailed will determine the length and quality of your life, where ever you seek treatment

I bet no one can even remember Cameron's campaign posters from the last election now

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Didn't all this happen under Labour's watch though?

Are you saying things would be any better under a different government?

Personally I think we're buggered whichever way...

John said:

Didn't all this happen under Labour's watch though?

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I believe that Mr Marwood's point may be that these events happened during a period of increasing spending and he is concerned that there may now be additional pressures to be contended with..

Whilst overall spending may have been increasing, my understanding (which may be very wrong!) was that the hospital - along with many others - was trying to save money to balance its books. That followed from the then minister (Patricia Hewitt I think) stating in the House of Commons that no hospital would run a deficit budget after a year where spending was much higher than forecast.

That is part of the problem in my view - the focus moved away from patient centred care to budgets and balancing the books - the budgets were being used to monitor Govt targets rather than on paying more nurses to care for patients.

Before I'm pounced on, I do of course recognise that it is much more complex than that and there are many, many more factors involved. I do think we need to give the current hospital team the time and space to get it right, there is a role clearly for pointing out where they are still not getting it right, but this is in danger of becoming a self fulfilling prophecy.

It is a very complex and emotive issue, that i do know, and we must look to the future to get a health care service in Stafford and the UK that is fit for purpose.

and our fate is compounded by a weak opposition - a Labour leader who is arrogant and thick at the same time, no wonder we are so deep in the shit

peggy said:

I will sit back and wait for the wave of the forums back lash, but as a regular at hospital i felt the need to share my opinion, and it is just that, my opinion.

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Hi Peggy, you've made a well-considered point supported by your own experience. I can't imagine why there would ever be any kind of backlash from other forum users.

For my part, it is challenge enough keeping my own life in order. I certainly don't have any answers to the problems at Stafford Hospital nor indeed, the wider NHS. The only thing about which I am certain, though, is that someone who identified those problems, brought them to public attention and is fighting for accountability, is deserving of gratitude and respect. The report last week stated that people went in to the hospital as patients and ended up as victims. If that is no longer the case then we have campaigners - ordinary local people - to thank for saving lives.