Where not to go if you need an ambulance!!!

db

#chaplife
I am a Street pastor and would have helped in this situation. We can be called to an area through the radios.
i've never heard of these "street pastors".. is it voluntary? do you get any kind of remuneration/expenses? how often do you do it, and how busy do you find yourself on a typical night? and with what sort of things?

i'm not interested in doing it, obviously - it's just the first time i've ever heard of it, and am intrigued as to what it's all about :)
 

littleme

250,000th poster!
I think they hand out bendy shoes to ladies who have drunk too much, and can't stagger home in their high heels?!

Bet they do lots of other useful things too ;)
 

Gramaisc

Forum O. G.
i've never heard of these "street pastors".. is it voluntary? do you get any kind of remuneration/expenses? how often do you do it, and how busy do you find yourself on a typical night? and with what sort of things?

i'm not interested in doing it, obviously - it's just the first time i've ever heard of it, and am intrigued as to what it's all about :)
Some info - http://stafford.streetpastors.org.uk/about/ - and contacts.
 

ATJ

Well-Known Forumite
I've spoken to the Street Pastors a couple of times on my night time ramblings around town. They're really nice people, always willing to talk and they do a really good job of helping out the people who need it by providing care, a shoulder to cry on, water, shoes and lollipops.

One of the best things they do is help take care of people who otherwise would have ended up in a police cell overnight, saving police time and those people from unnecessary records.

My other half looked into volunteering, but unfortunately it's a Christian organisation and you can't join unless you're a member of a church. Which is a shame, because I don't think you need to believe in God to want to help people out.
 

Thehooperman

Well-Known Forumite
I've spoken to the Street Pastors a couple of times on my night time ramblings around town. They're really nice people, always willing to talk and they do a really good job of helping out the people who need it by providing care, a shoulder to cry on, water, shoes and lollipops.

One of the best things they do is help take care of people who otherwise would have ended up in a police cell overnight, saving police time and those people from unnecessary records.

My other half looked into volunteering, but unfortunately it's a Christian organisation and you can't join unless you're a member of a church. Which is a shame, because I don't think you need to believe in God to want to help people out.

So how do we get in touch with one if we ever need them?
 

Thehooperman

Well-Known Forumite
Or the phone number in the link..?
Yes I did notice those numbers but I was thinking more of how we would have contacted them the other Friday in the Grapes.

The number on the link is a landline which I'm not sure is manned at night or a mobile which will belong to one of the Street Pastors who may not be on duty when you need them.
 

Gramaisc

Forum O. G.
The number on the link is a landline which I'm not sure is manned at night or a mobile which will belong to one of the Street Pastors who may not be on duty when you need them.
This mobile number is there - 07720 850720 - though whether that is in use every night is another matter - might be worth ringing in the daytime to see if that is the case - that number seems to be associated with House of Bread, also.
 

That-Crazy-Rat-Lady

Well-Known Forumite
I have spoken to the street pastors (whilst sober) and they really are a lovely bunch!

They have only been pastor-ing for the last 3 years due to the rise in party goers in Stafford!

I think they do an amazing job and are easy to find in Stafford town down either Bridgestreet or down by couture

I believe you have to go on a course if you wish to join and help but I haven't heard about any religious restrictions?

They carry flip flops for those with sore feet and silver foil blankets for those not wearing enough!

The problem is taxis wont take people throwing up home and the police aren't a taxi service so the

pastors do a great job mediating between to two and make sure people get home safe!
 

winnie67

A few posts under my belt
as I said we can be contacted by radio but we do patrol the streets so go out on the main street and you should find the street pastors like the previous lady states
 

StaffordMad

A few posts under my belt
I can see why the Landlord doesn't want police & ambulance in his pub constantly because this can put his licence at risk when it comes to renewal. But a one-off incident would not cause any problems.

I also see his point about wasting ambulance time. They are there for strokes, heart attacks, asthma attacks, cardiac arrests and other serious conditions, not for anxiety attacks. Since the closure of Stafford A&E at night, the nearest ambulance to a cardiac arrest might be coming from Wolverhampton or Stoke-on-Trent if the only resource in Stafford is being dealing with a panic attack. I really think the public have unrealistic expectations of how many ambulances are on duty across Staffordshire at any one time.

There is some serious lack of first aid knowledge in the general public if they cannot coach and re-assure somebody having an anxiety attack until it stops. This is all the ambulance crew can do...there are no magic drugs to stop it and oxygen will do absolutely nothing for a panic attack.

Fair play to the police for using some common sense, cancelling the ambulance, re-assuring her and sending her off home with a friend to watch over her. All the excitement amoungst her friends probably didn't help resolve the situation.

Unfortunately, had an ambulance arrived, it no doubt would have coded as a Category A 'Breathing Difficulties' call (everything is over triaged just in case it is an asthma attack or similar), so perhaps a community responder, rapid response paramedic and double crewed ambulance dispatched to the scene. No doubt all these blue light vehicles and uniformed people milling around on scene would have made her panic attack even worse, so the crew might have taken her up to A&E in Stoke just to 'cover their ass' (very, very, very rarely, a panic attack can be confused with a small blood clot on the lung, but in these instances they rarely return to a normal state of breathing on scene), she would have spent all night in A&E having her bloods taken, ECG taken, chest x-ray done, and sent home after 12 hours of sharing a cubicle with a drunk when everything comes back normal.

Sorry for the rant, but it is very annoying that people think a 999 ambulance is the right response to every medical incident that occurs out-of-hospital or in a public place, whether that's for a cut finger, panic attack, stomach pains etc. There is always the option of getting the pub or shopping centre's first aider to crack open a box of plasters, take them to A&E or (OOH) GP in your own car (or taxi) or even call NHS Direct or pop to the local pharmacy for some basic advice. All of these options keep the (ever diminishing) number of ambulances free for life threatening emergencies such as heart attacks, strokes, life threatening bleeding, serious car crashes etc, instead of forcing the crew to explain to a dead person's family that the reason the ambulance took 40 minutes to arrive on scene was because they were busy doing the endless amount of paperwork involved with treating a panic attack on scene and leaving them at home. The irony is that the genuinely ill people and there relatives never moan about how long the ambulance takes but those who call for a cut finger are constantly on the phone to 999 wanting to know why the ambulance hasn't arrived within 5 minutes.
 

ATJ

Well-Known Forumite
I disagree. While ambulance services are stretched and people should be responsible about calling for help, I for one know that I wouldn't take the risk of not calling one with a friend in front of me struggling to breathe.
You say yourself that the public has a serious lack of first aid knowledge- well if a paramedic can't immediately tell the difference between an asthma attack, blood clot or panic attack then how is someone untrained supposed to know?

Basic first aid courses say if in doubt, call an ambulance.
It can be taken that most people in a pub on a weekend either won't be in a fit state to drive or won't have access to a car.
Taxi's on a weekend are a)busy and b) reluctant to take on 'trouble'.
From personal experience, the out of hours GP and NHS direct both always tell you to get to A&E if there's any doubt about your situation.
Pharmacys are closed at that time.

I live with an asthmatic. I'd hate to think that if he needed help in town on a Saturday night someone who thinks they know better than to call an ambulance would prevent him from getting the help he needs.
 

StaffordMad

A few posts under my belt
Unfortunately, having done the job for a few years now, I can tell you that if your asthmatic friend is unfortunate enough to have a serious asthma attack, he may be waiting for quite a while for a paramedic to become available. The chances are that nearby resources are all likely to be busy visiting the 'worried well' (who have called an ambulance 'just to be sure'), picking up old people who have fallen because care homes won't pick them up because of their 'no lift policy' and various other people who haven't bothered to get a taxi to A&E because their a) out of credit or b) skint (can still afford 10 pints though). I've only ever gone out to one patient who a taxi driver refused to take to hospital despite her best efforts, as she was actively in labour and he didn't want his vehicle off the road all night. 99.9% of the time even on a Saturday night, you can get a taxi to A&E. 50% of the patients we go to just sit in a chair in the back on the ambulance and get ferried to A&E with no interventions performed, who could have got in a taxi. At £350 a time, we are an expensive taxi, and we are then tied up for at least 30 minutes doing paperwork to make sure the service is covered in the event of legal action.

I'm well aware that NHS Direct, First Aid Trainers and OOH GP like to tell everybody to ring 999 if there is any doubt. Hence the nickname NHS Re-direct amoungst ambulance staff. However, they don't seem to appreciate that call volume increases 5-10% year on year, with no increase in paramedics or ambulances. This increase isn't because people are getting sicker, quite the opposite. Something has got to give. Either the public want an ambulance service with lots of resources so that they can 'check over' anybody who might or might not even be unwell (in which cases taxes need to be increased to pay for this) and the public will also need to accept that paramedics will be crap t treating poorly patients as they will rarely be exposed to patients who have anything more than a cold. Skills fade happens very quickly in medical practice. Would you want your GP to be performing procedures on critically ill patients when he hasn't seen one for years? Why would this be different for paramedics?

As a species we are fairly good at recognising when one of our own is seriously ill. A life threatening asthma attacks presents absolutely nothing like a panic attack. I could save the NHS a fortune if I could 'coach' an asthmatics breathing to the point everything returns to normal. Unfortunately first aid trainers, NHS direct and GP services like to cover their own backside by encouraging the public to call 999 for everything and conveniently this means the private contractor operating the OOH GP service has to pay for less GP coverage as the ambulance service end up treating at least 25% of the patients who request an OOH GP. So the NHS ends up paying twice and the private company pockets the difference.

I'm well aware that the public can sometimes panic, over-react etc and an element of this will always occur, but I get so frustrated when I'm sent to an incredibly unwell patient who has been waiting ages for a resource because everyone has been busy dealing with crap and then when I arrive I have to check my pocket boot for drug dosages etc because it so rare I ever need to treat somebody so ill! I hope it isn't my family or friends who have to wait this long, but it is only a matter of time.

I have no problems if the public want a 24/7 paramedic-led 'just in case' service with lots of vehicles, paramedics and call takers etc so that everybody who calls 999 for any concern whatsoever gets an ambulance to 'check them over' but the public need to pay for this as calls are going up every year. At the moment we're an emergency service on a limited budget, dealing with 90% primary care issues and 10% real emergency calls.

For the record, it isn't a paramedic who makes a call Category A breathing problems, it is a non-clinical call taker who works to a strict, backside covering triage script. Anybody who mentions breathing problem, chest pain or not alert gets categorised as an 8 minute response. In the textbook, chest pain = heart attack, breathing problem = asthma/COPD attack and not alert = unconscious. In the real world, chest pain = cough for 10 days, breathing problem = panic attack/cold/flu and not alert = drunk/mental health problem/drugs/sleeping.

Definitely a good case for mandatory first aid training in schools that covers appropriate use of ambulance, A&E and GP resources.
 
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