henryscat
Well-Known Forumite
I am aware of the rules as set out. On strict interpretation you could remove half of the posts on this forum. It could also be said that other posts including yours are against the spirit of the "rules "
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Buying your dead pig from Tesco or Sainsbury?
- Thread starter henryscat
- Start date
Franklin_Delano_Roosevelt
Well-Known Forumite
Absolutely and if Admin choose to remove any of my posts then I would understand that it is "at their discretion and needs no justification" and take it on the chin. Shame you can't do the same.
Withnail
Well-Known Forumite
Henryscat has strong opinions (as I do) on a lot of issues which I like, I don't agree with some of them but at least he/she/it feels passionate about things that affect us.
Too many people go through life not really caring as long it doesn't affect them personally.
I wish more people were as passionate at henryscat!
Too many people go through life not really caring as long it doesn't affect them personally.
I wish more people were as passionate at henryscat!
db
#chaplife
well this is awkward.. i find myself agreeing with henryscat and hetairoi.. in the same thread..
"There is a fifth dimension, beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, between hetairoi and henryscat, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call - the Twilight Zone..."
"There is a fifth dimension, beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, between hetairoi and henryscat, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call - the Twilight Zone..."
Franklin_Delano_Roosevelt
Well-Known Forumite
Henry is certainly a master debater, of that there is little doubt
Kingy
Well-Known Forumite
Henryscat has strong opinions (as I do) on a lot of issues which I like, I don't agree with some of them but at least he/she/it feels passionate about things that affect us.
Too many people go through life not really caring as long it doesn't affect them personally.
I wish more people were as passionate at henryscat!
There is a fine line between education and indoctrination. Henryscat can sometimes overstep the line but as least he is true to his beliefs. However, with any belief system comes choice. I sympathise with some of his arguments but think he is nieve to believe that most forumites have not already made an informed decision about whether or not they should eat meat. Given that the average age range of forum members is between 30 and 50 (clarification needed) I would expect that most are aware of how meat gets to their plate and whether or not they should eat it. If you want people to respect your values you have to earn their respect first.
henryscat
Well-Known Forumite
In the vast vast majority of cases someone who eats meat has not made a conscious choice to. Most people are brought up with meat eating being normalised behaviour (not a conscious choice) and as such few people then question it. Having being brought up in this way, many do not rationally think about what they are eating. A lot has been written on the subject including www.carnism.com
Kingy
Well-Known Forumite
It depends on whether you consider meat eating to be normal or abnormal behaviour. Skeletal and digestive characteristics show that we have more in common with herbivores than carnivores but scientific evidence suggests that early humans ate meat. The anatomical argument for vegetarianism would also suggest that all humans should be heterosexual. That is clearly not the case. However, if you really want to make a change you have to educate (not indoctrinate) from an early age so that young people can make a more informed choice earlier on.
henryscat
Well-Known Forumite
For most in today's society, meat eating is normal. But, "normal" does not form a justification - how is normal defined? Whatever anyone's views, I would challenge anyone to say they had made a conscious decision to start consuming meat.
tek-monkey
wanna see my snake?
I've made a conscious decision to continue eating meat. My sister was a veggie when I grew up, my uncle who lived with us was a vegan, and I did try plenty of their food. I never got the moral standpoint though, to me a farmed animal is to be eaten. Well, TBH wild animals are too, but that means I have to catch them myself and there are few places that would let you due to land ownership laws. But I digress, I grew up around people that saw eating meat as bad and I just couldn't agree. Fair play to them, each to their own, but their own wasn't mine.
But sadly the likes of Henryscat hold such heart felt views that he/she won't accept that people are able to make conscious decisions to justify their lifestyles and unable to accept 'each to their own'.
henryscat
Well-Known Forumite
The point I am making is that the decision to start and continue eating meat is by an large not a conscious one. The decision to start eating it was almost certainly not yours. A person's day to day decisions to then continue to buy meat are not entirely conscious ones and are driven by the norms instilled into you in early life. I.e you are not necessarily acting of the free will that you think you are. The resources out there on www.carnism.com and elsewhere explain this very well. If you think that the psychology doesn't apply, I'd be interested to hear on what basis you think that is?
henryscat
Well-Known Forumite
It does follow for the reason that those norms prevent the proper extent of the thought you refer to - If you have time, the Carnism stuff is an interesting read on the psychological aspects of meat eating.
I can't help but feel you have a pious point of view that comes over as 'forgive them o Lord, as they do not know what they do'.
There is no doubting that animal welfare issues are very dear to your heart but your inability to accept that others don't feel the same does your cause no good
flossietoo
Well-Known Forumite
I admire your commitment and passion HC. I wonder, though, whether anyone has ever really been persuaded to become vegetarian? Were you? I certainly wasn't.
Sometimes, less often in recent years, a meat eater (usually male, often drunk, sometimes aggressive) has taken it upon themselves to explain to me why I should eat meat. It used to happen with strangers, at dinner parties. They seemed to take my meal as some kind of personal attack on them. All I wanted to do was get through the evening as invisibly as possible. I'd try to laugh it off, grow more and more uncomfortable and wait until it was time to go home.
Nobody persuaded or shocked me into becoming a vegetarian. Nobody will persuade me to eat meat. I think the best way I can encourage people to eat less meat is by cooking them something delicious and maybe by being healthy, happy and full of energy - if they ask me how I do it, I'll give them the recipe!
Sometimes, less often in recent years, a meat eater (usually male, often drunk, sometimes aggressive) has taken it upon themselves to explain to me why I should eat meat. It used to happen with strangers, at dinner parties. They seemed to take my meal as some kind of personal attack on them. All I wanted to do was get through the evening as invisibly as possible. I'd try to laugh it off, grow more and more uncomfortable and wait until it was time to go home.
Nobody persuaded or shocked me into becoming a vegetarian. Nobody will persuade me to eat meat. I think the best way I can encourage people to eat less meat is by cooking them something delicious and maybe by being healthy, happy and full of energy - if they ask me how I do it, I'll give them the recipe!
henryscat
Well-Known Forumite
I wouldn't phrase it like that but the psychology is there- do you disagree that normalised behaviour affects your decision making?
Also, I would be fairly certain that most meat eaters would hold that it would be wrong to cause suffering to a dog or cat in their household. Causing suffering to another species of animal in order to eat them is inconsistent with those morals, yet people do. I have yet to see anyone on this forum post a rational explanation that counters that view.
db
#chaplife
it is a shame that you seem to understand animals far better than you understand humans..
show me a single human being, anywhere, who has consistent morals, and i will show you an animal that i give a shit about..