Leave or Remain?

tek-monkey

wanna see my snake?
Labour have basically said elect us and we'll do as you say on brexit by giving you another choice now you know more. The only people I can see against that are those that now think remain will win or those weirdly desperate for no deal.
 

Lucy

Well-Known Forumite
In the aftermath of the conference I don't think that was clear, now however I think they've clarified it. How to we ensure teh vote isn't split between LD and Labour though? There's going to have to be some sort of alliance.
 

hop

Well-Known Forumite
Anyone who begins his blog with possibly the best example of "data visualisation" gets my respect.

Minard.png

So posting an image which isn’t relevant to the subject matter impresses you ? If your interested in data visualisation you will be aware of the work of Edward Tufte and know that the image above is basically kids stuff.
I could knock out more interesting graphics in under 20 minutes with billions of data points in a crap language like python, rendered in real time using dash. Some people are easily fooled.
 

joshua

Well-Known Forumite
Boris Johnson appearing a bigger shit than previously noted. Possibly his mood is a result of having being forced to come back from New York where tonight he had planned to be in his hotel suite discussing 'technological issues' with a couple of new friends.
 

Tilly

Well-Known Forumite
Boris Johnson appearing a bigger shit than previously noted. Possibly his mood is a result of having being forced to come back from New York where tonight he had planned to be in his hotel suite discussing 'technological issues' with a couple of new friends.


Don't lay your lack of foresight onto anyone but yourself
 

Mikinton

Well-Known Forumite
So posting an image which isn’t relevant to the subject matter impresses you ? If your interested in data visualisation you will be aware of the work of Edward Tufte and know that the image above is basically kids stuff.
I could knock out more interesting graphics in under 20 minutes with billions of data points in a crap language like python, rendered in real time using dash. Some people are easily fooled.
Wow - Having studied Geography at university and worked for 34 years in ICT, I'd have loved to have had a job in your line of work. The nearest I got was having to hand draw a map showing the heat island effect of Newcastle city centre .... which was interesting for one quite obvious reason if you have a look at a map of Newcastle.

And thanks for pointing me in the direction of Edward Tufte. Interesting that the graphic by Minard features prominently on the homepage of the https://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/ website - "Probably the best statistical graphic ever drawn, ..... ". I'll have to check out his work, though I can't see me being too interested in the non-geographical stuff.

Yes, I was pleasantly surprised on clicking on a link to Cummings' blog that he should have Minard's graphic at the top of his homepage, especially as military history is another of my interests. However, I must admit that at the time, I was more interested in his thoughts on the 2016 EU Referendum, so didn't read his homepage. Seeing the paragraph starting "The Jedi of data visualisation, Edward Tufte, describes this extraordinary graphic of Napoleon’s invasion of Russia as ‘probably the best statistical graphic ever drawn’.", and noting your "isn't relevant" comment, it appears that you may not have read Cummings' homepage either.
 
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Withnail

Well-Known Forumite
Labour have already lost it

It's only a question of how much Conservatives win it by
This is one way of looking at it.

As the last one in 2017 - remember when Theresa was a shoe-in for a 200+ seat majority? - taught us, a General Election is absolutely not the definitive outcome that Cummings thinks it is.

Spain goes to the proles (sp?) for the fourth time in as many years because it can't find a coalition to command a Parliamentary majority, do we really expect there to be anything other than a hung Parliament if we go to the Electorate here?

It would be nice to think that the Brexit Party Ltd would be dead and buried in a General Election, because you'd like to think that people would be voting upon a whole tranche of issues, and Farage's perspective on the inevitable move toward an American style insurance based Health Care system would see him thrown out of contention before the entire electorate could be kicked in the head by a horse.

But there are many things that would be nice if you only had to think about them, but they might happen if you didn't do more than just think happy thoughts. Because lots of people will vote for the Brexit Party Ltd in the coming Election, unless you do not do it yourself, and what is more, convince anybody you know who might vote for them to just not do that and to vote for someone else instead.

I cannot stress enough how important this is.

But then who to vote for instead?

I don't see, particularly, a problem with the Labour position - as much as i think the man is a complete tit i thought McCluskey made a point when explaining it in terms of a Union negotiating an agreement with the Management, then bringing the negotiated agreement back to the Members to endorse, or not, the negotiated agreement.

The only problem with it is that it almost certainly will mean that Labour and the Lib Dems will not make the kind of pact that might see a seat like Stafford at least teeter a bit, and see seats here there and elsewhere totter.

I'm not convinced that a GE, given that it will be driven by much more, one would hope, than the single issue BoZo hopes it will be fought on, will deliver anything better for the Tories than May got.

Do we genuinely think we will end up with a Parliament that is fundamentally different to the one we currently have?

There will have to be another referendum if the House ends up fundamentally the same - you don't want it, i don't want it, Brenda from Bristol won't want it, but it will be a necessary next step.
 

Tilly

Well-Known Forumite
On a more practical level

The Poles

They come over to the UK, work hard, save money and then on a birthday or anniversary they go home again. Then another group of Poles come over, do the same, the process is repeated

Our factories run ok because of this

Our food is picked and processed ok because of this

Until now

Poland has introduced a minimum wage, Germany pay higher wages

They've stopped coming , other factors are involved. You may know them

So when the remaining Poles go back again , on an anniversary or birthday, we will see a steady decine in a workforce that is essential to the country

Meanwhile

We encourage school leavers to go University

Not into apprenticeships, but University

To get degrees in golf course management, media studes, culinary arts and psychology

And then leave University with a thirty grand debt and get a job behind a bar

All broad generalisations

But this will cost the UK dearly,


Footnote

For Poland also include Romanian and other Eastern European nations

Some do stay

Factories in Poland who lost their workforce, employed Sri Lankans
 
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Mikinton

Well-Known Forumite
Labour have already lost it

It's only a question of how much Conservatives win it by
I think I'm with Withnail on this one. We're heading for a hung parliament (again), even though the Tories will certainly be running a more effective campaign than Theresa May's in 2017 (it couldn't be any worse - "things can only get better" ;) ). The big problem for the Tories is making up all those seats they're going to lose in Scotland.
 

proactive

Enjoying a drop of red.
I think I'm with Withnail on this one. We're heading for a hung parliament (again), even though the Tories will certainly be running a more effective campaign than Theresa May's in 2017 (it couldn't be any worse - "things can only get better" ;) ). The big problem for the Tories is making up all those seats they're going to lose in Scotland.
Our only hope is a hung parliament. Where someone moderate can reign in the excesses of Boris Trump or Comrade Corbyn.

And even then...
 

hop

Well-Known Forumite
And thanks for pointing me in the direction of Edward Tufte. Interesting that the graphic by Minard features prominently on the homepage of the https://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/ website - "Probably the best statistical graphic ever drawn, ..... ". I'll have to check out his work, though I can't see me being too interested in the non-geographical stuff..

I was building big data solutions before the term was even coined by the media. Every day my solutions process billions of rows of data across multiple transnational organisations.
Seriously the geographic stuff is trivial with a decent GIS system and easily accomplished by novices.
Checkout datashader.org and you will realise how easy this basic aspect of what is now being termed data science by the media is.
 

proactive

Enjoying a drop of red.
I was building big data solutions before the term was even coined by the media. Every day my solutions process billions of rows of data across multiple transnational organisations.
Seriously the geographic stuff is trivial with a decent GIS system and easily accomplished by novices.
Checkout datashader.org and you will realise how easy this basic aspect of what is now being termed data science by the media is.
He said, modestly...
 

hop

Well-Known Forumite
He said, modestly...
Check out the link and you will realise that even a noice can create powerful interactive data visualisations with minimal effort. In the old days we had to resort to low level efforts and use things like OpenGL, C++, Cuda and OpenCV.

Data visualisation is now a mostly solved problem which is basically a commodity task.

Mikinton claims to have worked on ICT for 35 years in which case if he/she kept at the top of his game he would have realised about Tufte and know that the visualisations he was some impressed with are not complex in this modern era.
 
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