Coronavirus.

The Hawk said:

But it's a lot more than that. Hospital admissions, as a result of COVID-19, take up a disproportionate amount of NHS resources and then there's the impact of long-COVID

And, many businesses are struggling, due to losing employees who have to isolate. School children are missing part of their education and things like holidays and attendance at events cannot be booked with any certainty.

Now I know flu can be disruptive, but I can't ever recall it being that disruptive. Many other things impact on individuals and families, but not the whole planet.

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I think hospital admissions due to Covid are currently 9%.

The reason that flu isn’t as disruptive, even though it kills more people is because most people who catch flu go to bed for a week.
All their work colleagues and those they’ve been in contact with aren’t expecting to go home as well for 10 days.
With Covid far too many people are being asked to isolate.

If someone is being asked to stay home because they’ve been in contact with someone then surely if they test negative themselves then they could be allowed back into society after a few days.
If someone in a restaurant tests positive, why does absolutely everyone who went there have to self isolate too? Even if you were nowhere near that person?

Is it these decisions that are crippling the economy not the virus itself?

There isn't herd immunity because there's way too many people not vaccinated. Not just here, but elsewhere too.

The virus isn't killing the economy, the government's policies are. There is not a chance we won't be in some sort of lockdown again, all because Johnson is too chicken to stand up to Cash et al.

Look at New Zealand to see how it can be done. It could have been done here if they really cared.

And there we have it... Why would anyone bother if they got pinged now. Maybe because they have integrity.

Carole said:

Can someone please explain it to me because I think I’m missing something.

Yes loads of people are contacting coronavirus, but hundreds of people are contracting flu. Many more are dying of flu and other things.

People are contacting Coronavirus but not many people are dying from it.
50 deaths is quite small compared to the other weekly deaths from other things.

Of all the deaths in the UK in July, only 1% were due to Coronavirus. Yes just 1%.
That means that 99% are dying of other things.

This week less than 9% of hospital admissions were due to Coronavirus.

I genuinely don’t understand why, when the chances of dying from it are minimal compared to everything else, why there is still such a panic over it.

I’m genuinely not trying to be obtuse, I just don’t get it.

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The thing about coronavirus in the context of the overall death rate is that firstly, of course, not all those other causes are from transmissible diseases. Thus it doesn't really make sense to compare the covid mortality to those dying in (for example) car accidents, complications of surgery or old age because you don't "catch" those causes of death.

The other factor that people often overlook when downplaying the number of deaths that covid causes is chronic illness. I know several people suffering from long covid, some of whom got infected last March. Infection has been a life-changing experience for an estimated 385,000 people in the UK alone so it's not simply a matter of surviving it.

The other (and I would argue main) risk right now is the potential for variants to emerge that could evade our vaccines. In that scenario the silver lining of our current relatively low (but rising) death rates and hospital admissions would disintegrate. That's a large part of the backlash against the government dropping all restrictions, the false sense of security that it's given many to think we are out of this when in reality we're still in a pandemic.

In case anyone missed it, 1,200 scientists and physicians this week backed a letter to the lancet journal outlining that the UK's approach is a threat to the entire world for the reasons stated above and more: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...d-unlocking-a-threat-to-the-world-experts-say

My main worry about covid is that while I may die of cancer or heart disease the chances are that no-one else would have given me those illnesses whereas every time I go out there’s the potential for someone to kill me with covid despite me doing my best to avoid it.
Yes, I know I could be hit by a bus etc etc anytime.

Carole said:

I genuinely don’t understand why, when the chances of dying from it are minimal compared to everything else, why there is still such a panic over it.

I’m genuinely not trying to be obtuse, I just don’t get it.

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If you don't understand why, then why are you still wearing a mask, sanatizing your hands and trolly, and keeping a safe distance?

EasMid said:

My main worry about covid is that while I may die of cancer or heart disease the chances are that no-one else would have given me those illnesses whereas every time I go out there’s the potential for someone to kill me with covid despite me doing my best to avoid it.
Yes, I know I could be hit by a bus etc etc anytime.

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Well said.

Johnson and Sunak have u-turned and now will isolate. It'd be embarrassing if I had ever voted for this sack of spuds (preempting the forum censor, there).

littleme said:

If you don't understand why, then why are you still wearing a mask, sanatizing your hands and trolly, and keeping a safe distance?
.

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Either I’m not explaining myself very well or people aren’t taking the time to read what I’ve said.

I understand how it the virus works and I don’t want to catch it. I don’t want to be poorly and I don’t want to isolate for 10 days.
I wouldn't want to catch it in the same way that I don't want to catch the flu, I don't want it but I'm not in a panic about it. I'm not obsessing or worrying every day over it.
I understand that long Covid is a real worry and a concern.

Thing that I don’t get is this.
Why does everything have to stop? Why do so many people have to isolate?
Why does a person visiting a restaurant have to self isolate just because someone in that restaurant tested positive but you might have been nowhere near?
As sorry as I am for the 335,000 thousand people suffering from long Covid, it’s not feasible to keep isolating everyone else.

The thing I don’t understand is normal flu kills as well but you wouldn’t have to isolate because your work mate had it so why so with Covid? Why isolate if you’ve been tested and you haven’t got it? That’s what I don’t understand.

People are still catching it but fewer are dying from it.
If it’s not going away then there has to be a way to learn to live with it, to manage the risk.

If some people still want to live in fear and never set foot through the door that’s up to them.
But for others that want to live as normal a life as is possible at the moment, then they should be given the freedom to do so.

Some people want the freedom to be able to go out to dinner at a restaurant, to visit the hairdresser or go to the pub without the worry of being tracked and traced then not be able to go anywhere for 10 days.
It’s just ridiculous.

Carole said:

The thing I don’t understand is normal flu kills as well but you wouldn’t have to isolate because your work mate had it so why so with Covid?

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Because the flu has been supressed to point that it's no longer pandemic status, it's endemic. Plus we know a greater deal about the flu and the long term impact of infection, whereas we're still learning about covid (such as the 'black fungus' that has been reported in survivors in some countries: https://www.reuters.com/world/india...us-robs-some-india-their-eyesight-2021-07-01/). You must understand the significant difference between a new virus that is still currently spreading around the world and a virus we have lived with for generations?

Your comments seem largely against the idea of people having to isolate for x or y reason when it seems, to me, you're talking more about faults within the government's policies rather than what most people want. The logic behind the covid app is sound, it's just how it functions that is causing these issues.

You say "if some people want to live in fear and never set foot through the door then that's up to them", but that's not the case for vulnerable people, is it? As I've heard many say on call-in shows this week, their freedom is very much curtailed by ours being restored. They can decide not to go to nightclubs or restaurants but many will have to go into supermarkets and on public transport, where they are literally putting their lives at risk if people around them are not social distancing or wearing masks.

@SketchyMagpie
good points, well made.

Although the last comment about putting their lives at risk going into a supermarket etc.
Are these unvaccinated people you are referring to?
Because surely once vaccinated one can still not want to catch the virus but surely the fear of dying from it should be lessened?
I don’t understand why people who have been double jabbed are still living in fear.

People who are clinically vulnerable are still being advised to reduce their exposure to covid even though shielding has "officially" ended, though many still are shielding through choice. People will have different levels of protection from the vaccine based on how clinically ill they are, for example those with a weak immune system may get significantly less.

I get where you're coming from, just to say, but I think this discussion is relevant in the context of how we're supposed to behave after tomorrow in terms of "personal responsibility" because the responsibility we healthy folk have is the opposite of personal, really, it's to help shield other people.

That's what the concept of herd immunity is all about, in a broad manner of speaking but we aren't there yet.


EDIT: I edited my post quite substantially from what I first posted so apologies if anyone is replying to that original message as I write this.

On another note, I feel sorry for the Iron Man participants today. Bloody hell. Went out on my bike for 10 minutes and the heat was enough to make me feel sick.

SketchyMagpie said:

On another note, I feel sorry for the Iron Man participants today. Bloody hell. Went out on my bike for 10 minutes and the heat was enough to make me feel sick.

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Yeah we were thinking the same, it’s way too hot for that today… I imagine there’s gonna be quite a lot of people struggling with the heat

Carole said:

Can someone please explain it to me because I think I’m missing something.

Yes loads of people are contacting coronavirus, but hundreds of people are contracting flu. Many more are dying of flu and other things.

People are contacting Coronavirus but not many people are dying from it.
50 deaths is quite small compared to the other weekly deaths from other things.

Of all the deaths in the UK in July, only 1% were due to Coronavirus. Yes just 1%.
That means that 99% are dying of other things.

This week less than 9% of hospital admissions were due to Coronavirus.

I genuinely don’t understand why, when the chances of dying from it are minimal compared to everything else, why there is still such a panic over it.

I’m genuinely not trying to be obtuse, I just don’t get it.

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Please don't take this as me picking on you @Carole but didn't you say something similar at the start of this pandemic?

My own views are that we should be lifting restrictions now but in a properly controlled manner.

Double jabbing doesn't mean the virus will be stopped from spreading or will kill any variants off but should hopefully reduce the severity for those who've been luckily enough to have both jabs.

The severity of the damage caused to those contracting COVID may have been reduced but are we really all safe yet?

I, for one, shall continue wearing my mask, hand sanitising, maintaining social distancing and spraying trolleys if not for my own safety but for the safety of others should I be a carrier.

SketchyMagpie said:

On another note, I feel sorry for the Iron Man participants today. Bloody hell. Went out on my bike for 10 minutes and the heat was enough to make me feel sick.

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Old bird (59) from work did a half marathon today. Maximum respect from me.

I got burned just climbing a ladder onto the conservatory roof ..... So I'm impressed .....

Thehooperman said:

Please don't take this as me picking on you @Carole but didn't you say something similar at the start of this pandemic?

My own views are that we should be lifting restrictions now but in a properly controlled manner.

Double jabbing doesn't mean the virus will be stopped from spreading or will kill any variants off but should hopefully reduce the severity for those who've been luckily enough to have both jabs.

The severity of the damage caused to those contracting COVID may have been reduced but are we really all safe yet?

I, for one, shall continue wearing my mask, hand sanitising, maintaining social distancing and spraying trolleys if not for my own safety but for the safety of others should I be a carrier.

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Same here.
I’m all in favour of removing all restrictions just not in such an irresponsible way when infection rates are going through the roof
The fact that the majority of people are vaccinated coupled with the increase in infections provides the ideal environment for the virus to mutate again. I just hope that WHEN it does it isn’t robust enough to overcome the vaccines (probably in a month or so)
I’m careful with what I do etc but lots of people aren’t (& haven’t been when they should have) & it’ll only get worse after “freedom day”(ffs)

Thehooperman said:

Please don't take this as me picking on you @Carole but didn't you say something similar at the start of this pandemic?

My own views are that we should be lifting restrictions now but in a properly controlled manner.

Double jabbing doesn't mean the virus will be stopped from spreading or will kill any variants off but should hopefully reduce the severity for those who've been luckily enough to have both jabs.

The severity of the damage caused to those contracting COVID may have been reduced but are we really all safe yet?

I, for one, shall continue wearing my mask, hand sanitising, maintaining social distancing and spraying trolleys if not for my own safety but for the safety of others should I be a carrier.

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Yes you are corrrct, no offence taken of course.
I did query it all in the beginning then I understood and behaved accordingly.

As for the rest of your post you are more or less saying what what I've already said.
I'll continue to stay safe for myself and others.

I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall.
We can't keep everyone locked away, the economy can't cope, people's mental health will suffer. It's about finding a balance.

A friend of mine has had a transplant so he's about as vulnerable as you get, he completely shielded at the beginning but even he's started going out and living his life.
He certainly wouldn't want the whole country to put their lives on hold for a minority.

Also, the pinging, it's to keep other people safe, not you.

In my instance, imagine if I had been in contact with someone who has the virus, but i not been pinged, I could be carrying it, I could then visit my 78Yr old parents with a spot of shopping, sit with them chatting for an hour or so after hugging them when I got there, hug & kiss them goodbye.... And all that time I'm killing them because I haven't been pinged, I don't know I've been in contact with someone with the virus, I don't know that I've carried it there & given it to them.

There are many many other instances and examples.... You never know what the person next to you is going through, who they are looking after or what issues they have within their life.

It's not to keep the individual safe, it's to keep EVERYONE safe.