Lammascote / Esso / Weston Road Lights...

it was joke this morning accident waitin to happen

shazbo said:

it was joke this morning accident waitin to happen

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it wasn't that bad.. aren't there whole cities in europe which have no traffic lights at all, and have proven lower accident rates? i'm plucking this from thin air though, so if anyone can confirm/deny it i would appreciate it..

i went through it at one of the busiest times of day today (~08:30) and as long as you had your wits about you the traffic flowed, in all directions, quite amiably.. everyone was (understandably) cautious, so everyone got a chance to make their way through..

i went though at 9 and it was blocked all across road no one letting any one though horns going.

Funny I went through at 9 also and traffic was flowing well, bar the fool who drove across infront of me without looking either way.

dirtybobby said:

it wasn't that bad.. aren't there whole cities in europe which have no traffic lights at all, and have proven lower accident rates? i'm plucking this from thin air though, so if anyone can confirm/deny it i would appreciate it..

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There was a successful experiment in a town in Holland. It basically worked because everyone became much more cautious as no-one had right of way. Spose the question would be how transferable it would be, on a permanent basis, to the style of driving we have over here.

i went through it at one of the busiest times of day today (~08:30) and as long as you had your wits about you the traffic flowed, in all directions, quite amiably.. everyone was (understandably) cautious, so everyone got a chance to make their way through..

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Yep, when I saw it earlier didn't seem to be any major drama. I've negotiated Scott Arms intersection with the lights out before now which is an interesting experience!!

Took us ages to turn onto the western road this morning from Longhurst drive because of traffic flow so I can only assume that the traffic was moving well at the crossroads at around half 8 this morning too.

The was a city (I think it may have been Dundee, but can't remember) where the traffic system went down for several days, and they found congestion noticeably decreased.

Personally I think that junction should be converted back into a roundabout (as it was about 30 years ago) Any thoughts?

MarkHeenan said:

Personally I think that junction should be converted back into a roundabout (as it was about 30 years ago) Any thoughts?

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Make it happen... i'll back you on it.

MarkHeenan said:

Personally I think that junction should be converted back into a roundabout (as it was about 30 years ago) Any thoughts?

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Yep - don't do it!!! There isn't enough space for a big enough roundabout to deal with the volume of traffic going through the junction.

Go for the roundabout Mark - some land can be taken from Highways House to accommodate it. As you say, there really is no other solution. It can't stay as it is, the tailbacks are terrible.

While we're at it.... the main reason for the tailbacks up weston road every day is the traffic lights at the hospital.

I suggest this junction is looked at... not sure what could be done... perhaps it could be widened slightly to make two lanes (heading up towards the Uni) so that people can still left turn on a filter arrow when no one else is turning? Come to think of it, I think the whole world would be a better place it people could turn left on a red light if safe to do so (as the americans can - turning right though obviously).

Maybe also an underpass or foot bridge so that the lights aren't on red as much for pedestrians crossing.

blueshirt said:

Go for the roundabout Mark - some land can be taken from Highways House to accommodate it. As you say, there really is no other solution. It can't stay as it is, the tailbacks are terrible.

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gk141054 said:

While we're at it.... the main reason for the tailbacks up weston road every day is the traffic lights at the hospital.

I suggest this junction is looked at... not sure what could be done... perhaps it could be widened slightly to make two lanes (heading up towards the Uni) so that people can still left turn on a filter arrow when no one else is turning? Come to think of it, I think the whole world would be a better place it people could turn left on a red light if safe to do so (as the americans can - turning right though obviously).

Maybe also an underpass or foot bridge so that the lights aren't on red as much for pedestrians crossing.

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Gawdeplus, aren't there any more imaginative solutions than building more road space? It generally doesn't work. Build more road space (at huge expense), it gets filled up again, and you're back to square one. That's pretty well established....

The main reason for congestion is (controversial I know) - people driving cars, it isn't the existence of traffic lights which end up being installed because of too much traffic....

Both building a big enough roundabout (which would probably end up taking some property near/on the corner of the junction) and/or road widening would be insanely expensive (could easily get into millions). I can't see that the money it would cost could be in any way justified. Not only that come the next government, public spending is going to be slashed left, right and centre.

Weston Road is always going to be difficult because of the hospital and university being major traffic magnets.

Underpasses/footbridges are generally not preferable because pedestrians won't use them because of personal security issues. Most towns are busy putting in crossings to replace underpasses and bridges for that very reason.

Any solution needs to look at investing in getting people out of their cars - i.e. buses or cycling, and it could be achieved for a lot less cost than a roundabout. It doesn't help that Arriva have recently chopped back on the #9 and #1 service and for reasons best known to them decided that the 9 should only serve the hospital in one direction.

A final thought on roundabouts is that they are more dangerous for both cyclists and pedestrians.

gk141054 said:

While we're at it.... the main reason for the tailbacks up weston road every day is the traffic lights at the hospital.

I suggest this junction is looked at... not sure what could be done... perhaps it could be widened slightly to make two lanes (heading up towards the Uni) so that people can still left turn on a filter arrow when no one else is turning?

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This was how the junction was until the most recent set of modifications, five years or so ago. They changed it down to one lane to put the pelican/puffin crossing in on the lights and the right hand filter in for Kingston Avenue. This must get two cars an hour at most. Pure madness?

henryscat said:

The main reason for congestion is (controversial I know) - people driving cars, it isn't the existence of traffic lights which end up being installed because of too much traffic....

Any solution needs to look at investing in getting people out of their cars

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oh for crying out loud, let's not go down this road again.. the last thread on traffic congestion got derailed in the same way..

telling people to "get out of their cars" is not a solution.. would it fix the problem? yes, but it's using a lump hammer to crack a nut and wouldn't actually help motorists.. congestion is a problem because people are selfish and will not relinquish their cars - and yes, i'm one of those people.. this is not going to change.. if you honestly think that a better road system does not equal less congestion then there is simply no point trying to even discuss it with you..

henryscat said:

Gawdeplus, aren't there any more imaginative solutions than building more road space? It generally doesn't work. Build more road space (at huge expense), it gets filled up again, and you're back to square one. That's pretty well established....

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that's the nature of life.. we had dial-up internet and everyone marvelled at it.. then we saturated it and had to expand, and lo we had broadband, and it was good.. then we saturated that and we were "back to square one".. so we had to expand again, to accomodate an ever more bloated internet.. no-one thought we could ever fill 10mb connections, but of course we managed it almost overnight.. should we have just said "well, getting rid of copper cable and installing fibre optic will cost billions, so let's just not bother"? most would argue no.. that's progress..

there are more people in the world, and more cars.. we have the technology to build more roads.. we will use it.. will there come a point where we can't build any more roads? yes, but we're not there yet..

dirtybobby said:

telling people to "get out of their cars" is not a solution.. would it fix the problem?

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Er, yes it is and yes it would. We have finite space and resources so we can't just keep building more roads and car parks, can we?

Sofa said:

dirtybobby said:

telling people to "get out of their cars" is not a solution.. would it fix the problem?

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Er, yes it is and yes it would. We have finite space and resources so we can't just keep building more roads and car parks, can we?

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did you even read the rest of my post? i notice you conveniently missed off the rest of the paragraph that you quoted, where i went on to say "yes it would".. and the end of my post, where i agreed that we have finite space and resources..

dirtybobby said:

telling people to "get out of their cars" is not a solution.. would it fix the problem?

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Er, yes it is and yes it would. We have finite space and resources so we can't just keep building more roads and car parks, can we?

It has been shown many times that you can not build your way out of a congestion crisis. Take London and the M25 as an example.

Sofa said:

It has been shown many times that you can not build your way out of a congestion crisis.

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no-one is arguing with that.. however, that has no bearing on the fact that some traffic systems in this town are inefficient..

you can't build your way out of a congestion crisis, but you can optimise the road systems you have to alleviate the pressure as much as possible..

Question: Would making busses free to everyone solve the traffic problems around the town centre?