Coat of Arms, Thomas Leslie Stafford

P

peterm

A few posts under my belt
Hello all.
I live in a house built in 1931-2 for Thomas Leslie Stafford in Black Rock, Victoria, Australia. High in the entrance of this lovely old Tudor-style mansion is a Coat of Arms as shown. I seek your help in understanding its meaning, provenance.

It is similar to the Stafford Borough Coat of Arms:
http://www.civicheraldry.co.uk/stafford_fbc.JPG
but there are major differences.

In particular - there are two Stafford knots but they are upside down!
The castle has square turrets rather than domes; the lion passant guardant is red, not gold; the helmet apparently means that of a gentleman; the wreath is capped by a simple crest.

Can you help?


stafford_crest.jpg
 
Withnail

Withnail

Well-Known Forumite
Have you asked the heralds?
http://www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/

Stylistic and colour differences are likely to be down to the constraints of expertise and materials available to the glazier i would have thought, but the heralds know everything. Everything about arms at least.
 
John Marwood

John Marwood

I ♥ cryptic crosswords
I think that is one of Goldie's works

He was a grafffiti artist in Wolverhampton before appearing in Bond films

His signature teeth can be seen at the top of the design

Writes a frootluip..
 
Admin

Admin

You there; behave!
Staff member
Withnail said:
Jolly good - do let us know what answer you are given, i'm sure i'm not the only one who would be interested to hear. :)
Click to expand...
Indeed! Please let us know what you discover, peterm; we all love a bit of Stafford history round here, as you can imagine. :stafford:
 
Stafford College

Stafford College

Well-Known Forumite
Indeed - please do share your findings.

As you can see from our logo, our own knot is upside down, too. There may have been a reason for this but if so, I am afraid it has been lost in the mists of time. Perhaps it has some deep symbolism. Or perhaps the designer came from a rival town.
 
Withnail

Withnail

Well-Known Forumite
1462313443.jpg

New Costessey signs to have emergency corrections

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/new_costessey_signs_to_have_emergency_corrections_1_788802
The two signs on the A1074 were meant to inform visitors of the village’s heritage by including an image of the Stafford Knot - an emblem of the Stafford family who used to live at Costessey Hall.

But the manufactures re-produced the emblem upside down and are now having to fix replacement panels so it faces the right way.
Click to expand...
Rather stretches the definition of 'emergency', but i suppose it's an easy mistake to make. :)
 
Stafford College

Stafford College

Well-Known Forumite
At school I was taught that the Stafford knot originated in a quick and easy way to hang three people at once. This was before the days of the national curriculum and I think teachers may have been more free to make things up. It is only now I realise that it would be quite an inefficient way to hang people, unless they were suspended horizontally with someone holding on to their ankles.

For some years I also believed that Lord and Lady Stafford lived on the top floor of Pennycroft Court flats. I quite like the social message that might have been behind that particular bit of misinformation.

Education is a great deal more straightforward for young people now. But perhaps they miss some pleasure in spending the rest of their lives unravelling fact from fiction.
 
Stafford College

Stafford College

Well-Known Forumite
peterm said:
That IS interesting. I hope the gurus answer me with some information.
Click to expand...

Likewise! I have run out of entirely made-up answers to the question: "Why is your knot upside down?"

In fact, if any forumites can furnish me with some other scarcely credible reasons, I will happily use them next time I am asked - unless Peterm discovers something more conclusive.
 
littleme

littleme

250,000th poster!
Withnail said:
1462313443.jpg

New Costessey signs to have emergency corrections

http://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/new_costessey_signs_to_have_emergency_corrections_1_788802

Rather stretches the definition of 'emergency', but i suppose it's an easy mistake to make. :)
Click to expand...
I read this yesterday, can't find anywhere on the net that would explain why it would be upsidedown though. I did find a blog somewhere that states that the knot on some Staffords bins were also upsidedown, with pictures of one at the top of Stafford castle, and asking if you could guess where the rest are?
 
ChrisLewis

ChrisLewis

Well-Known Forumite
Yes I recall the bins on the castle having the knot produced upside down 7 again this was a production error
 
P

peterm

A few posts under my belt
Withnail said:
Have you asked the heralds?
http://www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/

Stylistic and colour differences are likely to be down to the constraints of expertise and materials available to the glazier i would have thought, but the heralds know everything. Everything about arms at least.
Click to expand...

Well, I have had a response from the Portcullis Pursuivant.
"I am afraid that I think that what you have a piece of self-invented
heraldry of a man called Stafford who decided to give himself a coat of arms
which was a variant of that of the town of Stafford."

I asked a further question and have been waiting for a reply but it seems I will not get one.
I am not surprised by the response. Its pretty much what I suspected.
As for the Stafford knot being upside down on the TL Stafford shield, I think this may be a bit of humour, particularly when I notice that the "knot" is not actually a knot! (refer back to my original post and picture)
 
  • Like
Reactions: db
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top