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Good beer/Bad beer - Good pubs/Bad pubs.

Discussion in 'Pubs and Eating Out' started by Mudgie, Sep 4, 2020.

  1. markpa12003

    markpa12003 Well-Known Forumite

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    I know those places are cheap but £2 a pint is very cheap even for those places.

    Like I said above there are plenty of pubs in stafford that sell mass produced rubbish. Each to their own. Personally, I'd rather die of thirst than drink that rubbish and go to those pubs.

    Can we get back to the topic of Candid now because some of us like paying a higher price for better beer and drinking in better quality establishments.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2020
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  2. proactive

    proactive Behind you with a big stick!

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    Wadworths?

    Coach and Horses?

    I thought we were talking decent beer in decent pubs?

    Glad I'm not a Pubman, that's all I can say...
     
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  3. tek-monkey

    tek-monkey wanna see my snake?

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    Both types of place have their place, it just depends if you are there for the taste or the alcohol content per £. If you can't tell the difference in quality there is no point visiting the places that sell it, in much the same way some would visit the Market Vaults (back in oli's days, no idea what its like lately) and some will be just as happy with a maccys cheesburger.
     
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  4. tek-monkey

    tek-monkey wanna see my snake?

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    Bells or Balvenie? Some people honestly like the former more than the latter, taste is subjective. I'd have no idea at a wine bar, nor would I choose to visit one, but I also wouldn't speak badly of one just because I'm not their target market.

    The fact is places like the coach need customers just as badly as candid, so it's probably a good thing some people are happy with stuff others arent.
     
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  5. markpa12003

    markpa12003 Well-Known Forumite

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    Tek - I can confirm the burgers are still awesome from Market Vaults.
     
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  6. Thehooperman

    Thehooperman Well-Known Forumite

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    Neither is Mudgie by the sound of it!
     
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  7. Mudgie

    Mudgie Well-Known Forumite

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    Mark,
    Resorting to the use of the terms like "mass produced rubbish" - or "crap beers .... crap pubs" - doesn't do you any favours.
    As has more sensibly been commented recently "Both types of place have their place" and "taste is subjective".
    I don't accept that everything produced in quite large volumes, "mass produced", is "rubbish" - and conversely have occasionally known poor quality and inconsistency in "craft" products - and for most of my life have appreciated Wadworths 6X - and not only at a bargain price in the Coach and Horses.
    I might find some "craft" beers too cold, too highly carbonated and too citrusy - and too expensive - but I've rarely criticised them as I know that a diverse range of beers, and a variety of drinking establishments, should be welcomed.
    Establishments like the Coach and Horses are probably more for those for whom using pubs is part of daily life whereas Candid might be more for those who want an 'interesting' beer or two as "something for the weekend".
    Anyway, as has been suggested, maybe we can now get back to discussing Candid.
    By the way, do you have an interest to declare here ?
     
  8. tek-monkey

    tek-monkey wanna see my snake?

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    He likes the place, is that interest enough. I can't as I hardly know it but I'd have defended the floodgate like he defends Candid to be fair.
     
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  9. tek-monkey

    tek-monkey wanna see my snake?

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    Out of interest has the coach always been a favourite of yours? I've known several landlords (and lady!) over the years and I didn't really see consistency through this in beer quality other than the stuff it's hard to get wrong (like carling).
     
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  10. markpa12003

    markpa12003 Well-Known Forumite

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    I have no interest to declare. I just enjoy going to Candid and drinking quality beer at decent establishments. Do you have an interest in the Coach and Horses?

    BTW I've not said the pubs you've mentioned were crap, however i think they are inferior to Candid and the real ale pubs in Stafford. I also think the beers they sell are inferior to the beers I can drink at Candid or the real ale pubs. If you can't see the difference in quality of Wadsworth or Carling vs a 1hop; Steerage or a Blonde etc then I don't know what to say. Comparing them is not subjective - its like comparing a McDonald's burger vs a steak at a decent restaurant. Its really that simple.

    I drink beer because I like the taste; the different hops used and have an interest in different brewering techniques. I dont buy beer because its £2 a pint. I also don't drink in establishments that only sell mass produced rubbish - and usually bad pints!

    As ive said repeatedly above - each to their own. If you want to drink Wadsworth at the C&H, great. Why don't you set up a thread on this forum dedicated to the C&H and leave this thread alone?

    Its clear that you not a fan of Candid so why are you commenting on the post?
     
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  11. markpa12003

    markpa12003 Well-Known Forumite

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    Floodgate used to be my favourite place and I'm still in mourning by its loss. Candid is my new favourite place, but i love all the real ale pubs in Stafford.
     
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  12. Mudgie

    Mudgie Well-Known Forumite

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    I used the Coach and Horses most from 1974 to 1989 when Ray Till kept it and wouldn't say that that it's been a favourite of mine since then, just one of the pubs I'm likely to use when in town and one of a couple where I don't need to say what I'll drink.
     
  13. Mudgie

    Mudgie Well-Known Forumite

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    Mark,
    I have no 'interest' in any pub other than being a customer. You have confirmed that you're not the Mark that owns Candid and I think that's helpful.
    If you can't see the difference in the quality of Wadsworth (sic) and Carling I don't know what to say !
    I've drunk many hundreds of pints of Slaters and Titanic beer and so am more than familiar with 1 Hop, as it's now known, and Steerage, the beer I usually drink in the Sun. They undoubtedly have a higher IBU than say Wadworths 6X but saying they are superior because of that IS being subjective.
    Could you please clarify your "mass produced rubbish" in terms of at what annual barrelage beer becomes "mass produced" and so "rubbish"?
    And then maybe we can get back to discussing Candid. .
     
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  14. Thehooperman

    Thehooperman Well-Known Forumite

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    The “punch” is to be avoided in the Coach. Every time @tek-monkey and I have been to Ayo Gorkhali there’s been a “punch” up falling out of the Coach.

    I blame the crap beers they sell or is it some of the idiots that choose to drink there, hmmmm let me think about that one.

    At least the beer’s cheap eh?
     
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  15. markpa12003

    markpa12003 Well-Known Forumite

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    I've not said the beers I mentioned are superior based on IBU. Stop making things up.

    I believe the beers are better because they taste better - its really that simple.

    Can you really not appreciate the difference in quality of the beers?
     
  16. Mudgie

    Mudgie Well-Known Forumite

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    Mark,
    My IBU comment was based on the main difference between the beers being that Wadworths 6X is less hoppy that 1 Hop and Steerage, and that was an assumption with you not having suggested what you like about 1 Hop and Steerage but don't like about 6X. Necessarily making an assumption isn't "making things up".
    I now understand that you "believe the beers are better because they taste better" to you, and we can all offer such subjective comments, but your, or my, opinion doesn't equate to a fact.
    Having used pubs since 1971 and taken a keen interest in their beers since then I believe that I can appreciate the difference in quality of many beers.
    I believe that Slaters and Titanic brew very good beers, Ged Slater's use of a brewing consultant when he started being money well spent, and neither brewery would have grown to the size they are now if their beers lacked quality or consistency. I have though drunk poor quality beers from newer breweries ten and fifteen miles away and the amateurish efforts of the likes of "hobby brewers" certainly don't do customers or the industry any favours.
    I would still be interested to know about your "mass produced rubbish" comment in terms of at what annual barrelage beer becomes "mass produced" and so "rubbish" - but maybe we now can just get back to discussing Candid.
     
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  17. markpa12003

    markpa12003 Well-Known Forumite

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    I named 1 Hop; Steerage and Blonde because they are well known beers that most regular pub goers will know. I could have named beers from Pollys, Deya or Mondo (etc) but you will only know those brewers if you drink at Candid or follow them on Facebook - I do both.

    My comment that the beers are better quality is not just my subjective view of what they taste like. It's also based on fact. For example, would you claim that the difference in quality of a McDonald's burger vs a steak meal at a decent restaurant is merely subjective. It's based on numerous factors - the ingredients used; the quality of those ingredients; the setting and who is cooking your meal etc etc.

    If you can appreciate the difference in the quality of the beer, then you should also be willing to pay more for it. I assume you're happy to pay £3.40 for a pint of Steerage despite knowing that you can buy a pint of Wadsworth(?) for £2 at the C&H. The principle is the same. I am happy to pay more for the beer at Candid; Slater's; the Sun etc because I believe the beer is better and I prefer those pubs.

    I am not sure why you are mentioning Hobby Brewers. To my knowledge neither of my two favourite pubs (floodgate, candid or any of the real ale pubs in Stafford) have stocked any beer from hobbyists.

    I've not said a beer is 'rubbish' because its mass produced. I have merely said I don't like / enjoy / want to drink the mass produced rubbish sold in pubs like Wetherspoons, such as Carling and Strongbow etc. I also don't think the beer is kept very well.

    Some mass produced beer is nice - I love a decent Gunness and Saddlers beers can now be found on the shelves of Aldi.

    I drink beer because i enjoy the taste. I don't drink to get drunk or based on price. When I go to a pub I want to drink decent beer and i am very happy to pay more to do so. Its for that reason I drink at Candid; Sun; R&C; Slaters; BiH; Shrewsbury Arms and not at C&H, Wetherspoons and Hogarths etc. If you want to drink at those places, great, but i struggle to see why you begrudge me wanting to drink at Candid and wanting to pay more. As you've said all pubs / beers appeal to different people and budgets.

    Final point on this debate because I am getting bored. Floodgate was the best pub in Stafford and sold the best beer, which it did so at a very reasonable price. For a number of years, Andy only charged £3 a pint and more recently increased the price for a pint to £3.40. Rip floodgate. You will be forever missed. If he charged more I would have happily paid it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2020
  18. Mudgie

    Mudgie Well-Known Forumite

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    Mark,

    The idea that the beers you like “are better quality is not just my subjective view of what they taste like. It's also based on fact” because of “the difference in quality of a McDonald's burger vs a steak meal at a decent restaurant” is illogical. Beer is beer but steaks and burgers are different products, steaks being the prime meat that beef cattle are reared for while burgers are the best use of minced tough meat from three year old cows culled because they no longer produce much milk. For you to justifiably state “that the beers are better quality” you should provide some evidence such as the ingredients used but I’ve not heard of the “mass produced rubbish” such as Carling being brewed with cheaper rice or maize rather than proper malted barley.

    Your comment about “appreciate the difference in the quality of the beer, then you should also be willing to pay more for it” makes more sense but the quality of a beer is only one aspect of how much most of us will pay for a pint, the ambiance or location of a pub being as important as the beer to many potential customers.

    Yes, I’m happy to pay £3.40 for a pint of Steerage because I like that beer and like the Sun and in there I’m thinking neither that the Coach and Horses is cheaper nor that drinking at home is cheaper still.

    I mentioning “Hobby Brewers” as to me that was the obvious example of poor quality beer. I’ve not known the Floodgate to sell such beers, nearly all of the brewers Andy chose being ones that had been about for a good while and I knew, but can’t comment on Candid.

    I would agree about Wetherspoons with your “don't think the beer is kept very well”, too many on, cask being a small proportion of sales and often lengthy lines between cask and handpump.
    We all have our favourite pubs and I’ll tend to use the Sun, Bird in Hand and Shrewsbury Arms rather than Candid, the Rose and Crown or Slaters.

    I certainly do NOT “begrudge” you “wanting to drink at Candid and wanting to pay more”.

    Yes, I agree that it was good beer in the Floodgate and the £3 a pint for years – with Andy not burdened by a pubco lease and able to buy from whom he wanted – was good value.

    Maybe we can now get back to discussing Candid.
     
  19. Thehooperman

    Thehooperman Well-Known Forumite

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    There's a dedicated thread for discussing Candid you know.
     
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  20. markpa12003

    markpa12003 Well-Known Forumite

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    Thank you admin. Hopefully, we can now get back to talking about Candid.
     

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