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Help save small brewers.

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Noah, Oct 20, 2020.

  1. Noah

    Noah Well-Known Forumite

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    The Government is proposing changes to Small Brewer Duty relief which will mean that many small brewers will be hit with a significant increase in Duty while the big boys will benefit. Given that many brewers are already struggling this could mean the closure of quite a number of the smaller breweries and the loss of many interesting beers.

    Please sign this petition if you think it important and are prepared to do so.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/334066
     
    Gadget, industryarch and Gramaisc like this.
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  3. proactive

    proactive Enjoying a drop of red.

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    Done.
     
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  4. Gramaisc

    Gramaisc Forum O. G.

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    Done.
     
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  5. Trumpet

    Trumpet Well-Known Forumite

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    Done.
     
  6. Carole

    Carole Well-Known Forumite

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    Done.
     
  7. Thehooperman

    Thehooperman Well-Known Forumite

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    Done and I'm also helping by buying more beer from smaller breweries as well :)
     
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  8. tek-monkey

    tek-monkey wanna see my snake?

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  9. basil

    basil don't mention the blinds

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    Done
     
  10. Mudgie

    Mudgie Well-Known Forumite

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    This is probably the first time I’ve commented favourably about an initiative from the current government but I agree with ‘levelling the playing field’ a bit as the new proposed relief would allow for fairer competition and will incentivise the growth of brewers, encouraging sustainable growth for all small brewers, micro and mid-sized alike.

    It’s wrong that the ‘cliff edge’ rates of duty since SDB was introduced caused some medium sized brewers to cut production and some more successful newer brewers to cease expansion.

    Some “small brewers” will pay more, though I’ve not seen evidence of many due a “significant increase in Duty” while the “big boys” won’t benefit from any reduction.

    I don’t accept the Orwellian “small brewers good, big brewers bad” mantra and won’t be signing the petition.
     
  11. Noah

    Noah Well-Known Forumite

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    Small brewers producing between 2100 hectolitres of beer a year (the proposed new "cliff edge") and 5000 hectolitres a year (the current "cliff edge") will be severely hit and we could lose many of them (1 hectolitre=100 litres =176 pints). Beyond the so-called cliff edge the relief tapers off and CAMRA are proposing that the top threshold for relief should be increased to 200,000 Hl per year, and a smother taper to help many of the medium size brewers.

    About 80 medium size brewers initially supported the SBDRC groups backing for the Government proposals but most have reconsidered this and now less than 20 medium size brewers remain within this group and most are now supporting the petition, along with SIBA, CAMRA & the Campaign for Pubs. A lot of the initial medium brewery support for the Small Brewers Duty Relief Coalition was drummed up by a PR firm employed by a consortium of the larger brewers who felt that the scheme and the existence of too many small brewers affected their profitability.

    No one is saying big bad, small good. The current scheme tries to level the playing field because smaller breweries have much higher init costs than big ones. It is far from perfect and needs reform. A "reform" allowing the biggest brewer to increase their profit at the expense of small and medium size brewers can never be good. It will mean a reduction in choice and CAMRA's campaign has always been for freedom of choice.
     
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  12. proactive

    proactive Enjoying a drop of red.

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    Yes, we're all aware of your love of mass produced crap.

    Double Diamond, works wonders.
     
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  13. Mudgie

    Mudgie Well-Known Forumite

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    Small brewers producing between 2100 hectolitres and 5000 hectolitres of beer a year will be paying more but the government wouldn't level the playing field a bit in a way that reduced their overall revenue from beer duty.
    It's the same as when duty for beer not exceeding 2.8% was reduced - which has only really benefitted the multinationals with their 2.8% cans of Skol - and duty for beer above 7.5% - and that included some classics like Moonraker - was correspondingly increased.
    No one is arguing against choice - and I'm sure you remember "Real Ale : Every pub should have one" - but a bewildering array of unknown pumpclips from several of the more than thousand microbrewers isn't what every pubgoer wants. 84% of ale drinkers want to see at least one nationally recognised ale brand on the bar and probably the second biggest threat to ordinary drinkers is that in less than two years Fullers, Greene King and Marstons have fallen into foreign ownership. .
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
  14. Mudgie

    Mudgie Well-Known Forumite

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    So are you suggesting that Allied Breweries producing a notoriously "crap" beer means that everything from a "big" brewer is "crap"?
    And it's “small brewers good, big brewers bad”?
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
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  15. Thehooperman

    Thehooperman Well-Known Forumite

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    Nice quote from the 2018 Marston's On Trade Beer report. They would say that wouldnt they?

    No doubt the customers surveyed were in a Marston's pub and hence that will be their expectation from a mass producing brewery. This does not necessarily equate to 84% of ale drinkers nationally and the stats are probably biased towards mass produced branded products to suit Marston's marketing strategies.

    Interestingly on the same page as that quote it says "7 out of 10 ale drinkers have been served an off pint" and their 2019/20 report has the same percentage for serving an off pint. I would have thought that Marston's would have intervened to correct this matter but it does match my expectation from 84% of the Marston's pubs I have been in.
     
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  16. Mudgie

    Mudgie Well-Known Forumite

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    No, it's from Cask Marque's The Cask Report - but Marstons might then have quoted it in their On Trade Beer report.
    I understand that the customers were surveyed in a wide variety of pubs.
    I think that that "7 out of 10 ale drinkers have been served an off pint" might also be from Cask Marque's The Cask Report, which was compiled independently, and that many of those "off" pints were from pubs having several cask beers on when they've only got the turnover for keeping two or three in good condition.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2020
  17. Noah

    Noah Well-Known Forumite

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    Interesting point on equality between large & small brewers -

    "New evidence shows small independent brewers pay business rates of over FIFTY times as much per pint as Global beer brands. Inequalities in the tax system can mean that small breweries can be paying more than fifty times as much per pint in business rates compared to global beer companies."

    https://www.beerguild.co.uk/news/ne...times-as-much-per-pint-as-global-beer-brands/
     
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  18. Mudgie

    Mudgie Well-Known Forumite

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    There's no denying that larger brewers are more efficient than smaller ones in many respects but that doesn't alter my opinion on the proposed changes to Small Brewers' Relief.
     
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  19. Zylo

    Zylo Well-Known Forumite

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    the way things are going, they won't have anyone to supply too.
     
  20. Thehooperman

    Thehooperman Well-Known Forumite

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    Just had this email.

    MPs will debate changes to the Small Breweries' Relief on Monday 9 November in the main House of Commons chamber. This is an Adjournment debate, determined by the Speaker.

    This will be an adjournment debate. Adjournment debates are half-hour debates at the end of each day's sitting. They are an opportunity for an individual backbench MP to raise an issue and receive a response from the relevant Minister, however they do not end in a vote nor can they change the law.

    The debate will start at around 10pm after the conclusion of business relating to the Financial Services Bill.

    Watch here on Monday: https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/06e38a5f-e967-46db-9299-d835154ed254
     
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