How to make Stafford Forum easier for newbies?

Admin

You there; behave!
Staff member
I am not computer literate, my son uploaded my avatar.

I am recommending lots of people to the forum but they are not joining as they are put off by jargon. Suggestion to admin ....don't assume that everyone clicking on the first time knows what it's all about.
Very good point, and one that I am constantly aware of.
If anyone has any suggestions for how we can make life easier for newbies, and encourage them to register & get stuck in, please let me know in this thread. :)
If there are any specific questions about The Forum, please feel free to ask them in here as well. I will then answer them all in a "What is Stafford Forum all about?" style thread, which I will make a sticky, and point newbies in the direction of as soon as they sign-up. :)
 

Gramaisc

Forum O. G.
I still think that a short manual written by the combined efforts of a Geek and a Luddite is the way to go.

In the Old Testament days it took me ages to work out how to load a picture url. It's a bit easier now, but still only if you know..

E.g., loading a video now might be easier, but if you hover over that film button, wondering if that might be something to do with it, it just says 'Media' which isn't much help to those of us from the past, when 'media' could be newspapers or stuff you mixed in art classes at school.
 

Admin

You there; behave!
Staff member
I still think that a short manual written by the combined efforts of a Geek and a Luddite is the way to go.

Well, that's sort of what I'm hoping to achieve with this thread! As I say, I will then take the questions & answers from here, and arrange them nice and neatly in another thread (or maybe even on a wiki-style page) which we can point newbies to. :)

In the Old Testament days it took me ages to work out how to load a picture url. It's a bit easier now, but still only if you know..

E.g., loading a video now might be easier, but if you hover over that button, wondering if that might be something to do with it, it just says 'Media' which isn't much help to those of us from the past.

Indeed. Unfortunately, there are limitations on what I can change/make easier. I agree with the above, but the WYSIWYG editor that you refer to is called TinyMCE and is part of the core Forum software, and as such I can't alter it in any way. I will change as much as I can to make it easier to register/post/get involved (and I already have changed a great deal in an attempt to do this), but some things will always be beyond my control, alas.

For example, I wish it was more obvious how one uploads a picture. You would think the thing to do would be to click the little picture of a tree in toolbar, just next to the filmstrip 'Media' icon that you mention, but that then just asks the user for a URL. I think it's a bit confusing that in order to attach a picture, you have to click the Upload a File button underneath the text box, and follow the convoluted steps presented to you! Again, however, I am restricted in how much I can modify this process as it is part of the core functionality of the software.

Still, these are all things I will look into, so the more people contribute to this thread, the easier I can (hopefully) make things. :)
 

Gramaisc

Forum O. G.
Indeed. Unfortunately, there are limitations on what I can change/make easier.
Things don't need to be changed/made easier, really - just the basic functions identified clearly once, and then people will retrace their steps the next time the need to..
 

tek-monkey

wanna see my snake?
Diversions happen in real life too, and to be honest if I thought I had to start a new thread for any post at a tangent from the thread title I'd post a hell of a lot less. I've seen forums die that way, I'm much happier with admin moving those he/she/they/it feels appropriate.

As for editing core forum code, what is it written in? If you really wanted to i suspect I could, but future forum upgrades may change it back.
 

Bob

Well-Known Forumite
It's not really answering the question but I know at least two people who were on here quite a lot before the change over who have barely been on since - It tokk me quite a while to get used to it and I do think it's much better now but it does take some getting used to.
 

proactive

Enjoying a drop of red.
It's not really answering the question but I know at least two people who were on here quite a lot before the change over who have barely been on since
But do you know whether their absence is due to the change in forum design?

It tokk me quite a while to get used to it and I do think it's much better now but it does take some getting used to.
What was it that took you a while to get used to? Essentially it's just a slight change of design, font and additional functionality for those accessing on a mobile device. I would imagine most people use a PC/Laptop/Mac and for them the changes have been merely cosmetic, not fundamental.
 

tek-monkey

wanna see my snake?
On a pc nowt much has changed, but on android the style has changed a bit. Or rather phone/tablet css has changed. The bar that says new stuff is impossible to see, for example.
 

Bob

Well-Known Forumite
What was it that took you a while to get used to? Essentially it's just a slight change of design, font and additional functionality for those accessing on a mobile device. I would imagine most people use a PC/Laptop/Mac and for them the changes have been merely cosmetic, not fundamental.

It's just different - can't really remeber the old layout very well now so couldn't really say. I think it was just a matter of getting used to the different options and navigating the new forum.
 

proactive

Enjoying a drop of red.
It's just different - can't really remeber the old layout very well now so couldn't really say. I think it was just a matter of getting used to the different options and navigating the new forum.
How are you accessing the forum then because when I'm on my laptop or my tablet or even my phone there really is very little presentational difference. For all practical purposes they layout is the same as it has been for months.
 

Withnail

Well-Known Forumite
One thing that was a bit easier in the ... old days was that when you "quoted" someone you could see all the 'tags' that had made the post look the way it did, and this in turn made it easier to see how they had done what they had done. Nowadays when you quote someone who has inserted a link, the link is automatically inserted so you can't see how they did it, if an image has been inserted, that likewise appears and you are none the wiser.

TBF this is not a bad thing in many ways, and doing slightly more 'out there' things is a good deal easier with the changes that have been made. It really doesn't take much to work out how to do things other than say what you think about sumfink, if you can be arsed to that is.

I still to this day very rarely initiate a topic, though am happy to prattle on where others have boldly gone. Perhaps mr highguyuk has something of a point, but mr tek-monkey has perhaps a better one in response. Maybe they are struggling to find the right words? Maybe people have nothing to say? Maybe they do have something to say but like me it would take so long to type it out that they simply cannot imagine committing themselves to writing it down and holding their thoughts together in a hopefully coherent way in case they lose their train of thought somewhere in the middle of a very long sentence and... and... shit, i kind of lost my train of thought there.

:mystery:
 

Kickstart

Well-Known Forumite
Hi

Afraid I would suggest getting rid of some of the more flash features. Popups for thread summaries are distracting and confusing (or just a pain). Same with formatting without tags.

Would also help if there was a log in option on pages other than just the front page of the forum.

All the best

Keith
 

Withnail

Well-Known Forumite
There is of course the Help section above, if people are in need.

What the above perhaps lacks is a screengrabby/picture type thing of what appears at the top of the 'Post Reply' box to show that they are 'short cuts' to physically adding tags to stuff - would it be possible to add some sort of schematic with pointy arrows to show what it all means? Then people could be directed to the 'Help' bit and have a clearer idea of the possibilities.

Not that i'm convinced that people are put off posting due to such things. Perhaps a free case of wine upon registration might oil the conversational wheels? Retrospective claims to be honoured in full if at all possible. :)
 

Admin

You there; behave!
Staff member
As for editing core forum code, what is it written in? If you really wanted to i suspect I could, but future forum upgrades may change it back.

It's just your standard PHP/MySQL arrangement, so whilst I could customise it within an inch of its life in theory, I want to avoid that as it will cause problems when I need to upgrade in future (i.e. I will customise as much as I can in an effort to make it more user-friendly, but I don't want to modify the core framework).

It's not really answering the question but I know at least two people who were on here quite a lot before the change over who have barely been on since - It tokk me quite a while to get used to it and I do think it's much better now but it does take some getting used to.
Yes, as with any change, it takes some getting used to! As you say, though, once you've got your head round the changes, it is definitely all for the better, for most people. One of the reasons for the change was to make it more accessible to new users, which I think it has done, by being easier to read on mobile devices, more prominent alerts, a more consistent user interface, etc.

Usage of The Forum has gone up dramatically since The Big Switch, so although not to everyone's tastes (particularly those who were used to Forum 1.0), we must be doing something right. :)

One thing that was a bit easier in the ... old days was that when you "quoted" someone you could see all the 'tags' that had made the post look the way it did, and this in turn made it easier to see how they had done what they had done. Nowadays when you quote someone who has inserted a link, the link is automatically inserted so you can't see how they did it, if an image has been inserted, that likewise appears and you are none the wiser.

The irony is, (again) this was one of the things that really drove the change! What seems second nature to you (and I) - e.g. the BBCode that you refer to - was archaic and inaccessible for most users. People expect WYSIWYG editors in everything these days, which is what we now have (e.g. you have controls for bold, italics, etc. as you do in Microsoft Word).

You can turn all that off and go 'old school' though, if you want! Just hover over your username at the top-right, choose Preferences, and untick the option that says "Use the rich text editor to create and edit messages". Et voila - no rich text editor, and you're back to manually entering BBCode as you did with Forum v1.0. :)

Afraid I would suggest getting rid of some of the more flash features. Popups for thread summaries are distracting and confusing (or just a pain). Same with formatting without tags.

Again, you can turn off most things (such as the Alerts you refer to) by going to your Preferences. :)

I am going to see how much it would cost to get someone to design me a "retro" style as well, which would emulate the original Forum layout, colour-scheme, and behaviour. If it's not too expensive, then I will go ahead with that for everyone who still prefers the Forum 1.0 look.

Would also help if there was a log in option on pages other than just the front page of the forum.

I agree, and this is definitely something that we will be introducing! :)

I am trying to find the time to write a Step By Step guide to Stafford Forum, but alas I am swamped with boring Real Life™ stuff at the moment. :(

Rest assured, it is on the cards, though! I've even setup a YouTube channel, with a view to producing "How To..." screencasts, showing you how to register, make a post, upload an image, etc.

So, so far we've got:

  • Register/Log-in button on every page.
  • "FAQ" page with plain English, step-by-step instructions on how to get started.
  • Change some of the jargon - so "Media" becomes "Insert a YouTube video," for example.

I know that's only 3 things, but I think those 3 alone will help encourage some of the less confident lurkers to take the plunge and join in. :D

Any other suggestions, please feel free to fire away!
 

Withnail

Well-Known Forumite
So, so far we've got:

  • Register/Log-in button on every page.
  • "FAQ" page with plain English, step-by-step instructions on how to get started.
  • Change some of the jargon - so "Media" becomes "Insert a YouTube video," for example.
  • Free case of wine on registration.
FTFY :)

! I've even set up a YouTube channel, with a view to producing "How To..." screencasts, showing you how to register, make a post, upload an image, etc.
Now that's a good idea.
 

peggy

Well-Known Forumite
As a bit of a newbie;
I didnt know what an avatar was, never mind how to display one.
I also dont know how to quote people.
I never click on anything which says "more options" incase i break something. (does it show I dont have much computer experience?)
on the upside I was able to post comments, open new threads and search items, which is about as much as i need to know so far.
 
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