Wanted Kittens

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henryscat

Well-Known Forumite
Is this thread still an "active wanted" one? I know someone who has just had 3 kittens a week or so ago that will no doubt be looking for homes in the near future.

If the person you know has literally had kittens then they will make a lot of money selling their story to the papers....

On a serious note, I hope that they will have their cat spayed as there are too many rescue cats needing homes without people allowing their own cats to go off and breed, adding further to the problem.
 

Hothouse Flower

Well-Known Forumite
I totally agree with the above comment.

Any responsible dog or cat owner should get their pet spayed.

I read a book about battersea and it broke my heart. There are just so many animals bred without thought, bought on a whim then abandoned. Then there are those that are kept in appalling circumstances.
 

wmrcomputers

Stafford PC & laptop repair specialist
Any responsible dog or cat owner should get their pet spayed.
Our dog has just had puppies. Does that make us irresponsible?
It is her second litter, so we'll be having her spayed in 3 months time.

The pups we raise are good natured and quite a "wanted breed". We have no problem at all in finding them good homes and in most cases receive contact from the buyers of the previous litter letting us know how they are doing. My wife loses sleep making sure that "mum" is well and delivers all the pups without problems. If she has any concerns at all then the emergency vet is here in a flash. She even spent a further couple of nights without sleep trying to nurse the "runt" which unfortunately went on to die, whereas most breeders wouldn't have even tried to give it a chance of survival.

Sorry to seem narked, but it really does P**S me off that everyone assumes you are irresponsible to allow your dog to breed. It does NOT make you irresponsible unless it is done in an irresponsible manner without thought or consideration.
Going on to your comments about the unwanted dogs in homes etc... I totally agree and this is a crying shame, however many of those dogs have been mistreated to a point where they would not make a suitable pet for (an example) a family with small children. They need a pup that can can be raised CORRECTLY with their children. It isn't the breeders fault, but the people who irresponsibly chose to own those dogs when they usually struggle to look after themselves - let alone an animal.
I also believe that nature should allow a bitch to have at least one litter before being neutered. How would women like it if that choice was taken away from them before they could decide for themselves.

Obviously we will all have very different opinions on this subject, and I genuinely do not want to offend anyone with anything I've said - it's just my opinion to which I believe I'm entitled. :)
 

flossietoo

Well-Known Forumite
One of my spaniels had puppies. Anyone wanting one of the puppies had to pass a very stringent interview process. If I wasn't 100 per cent confident that the puppies were going to spend the rest of their lives being as adored as they had been in their first nine weeks, I turned the owner down. Most came to visit their puppy at least weekly while they were still with me. One person didn't. I reasoned that if he didn't have the time and enthusiasm for a puppy when it wasn't weeing on his carpet and stealing his shoes, then he would be unable to manage the reality of a small puppy. So I found a different owner. One of our puppies was, apparently, a rare colour. Someone rang us up and offered us £5,000 for that particular puppy. We'd already let it go to someone who was just starting out working from home and couldn't afford to pay the going puppy-rate. But she made a 100 mile round trip twice weekly, to visit and photograph her puppy. Obviously, she got the dog.
Four years later I am still in touch with the puppies and their owners. In fact one extremely rainy day this week found a gang of spaniels cavorting at Downsbanks - including the woman who had the 'rare' puppy. At that point, all of them were, very properly, mud-coloured.
Maybe I was irresponsible letting my dog have puppies but I confess, I don't regret it. I will never forget a second of the whole experience and those puppies have gone on to live fantastic lives in wonderful families.
Having said that, I venture to suggest that it is extremely irresponsible for some parents to breed. Frankly, the resulting offspring are, in my view, likely to bring a lot less joy into the world than my spaniels.
 

wmrcomputers

Stafford PC & laptop repair specialist
Ooh, I'm glad you've mentioned downs banks!! I forgot all about that place. Might take ours for a walk up there soon. Thank flossie! :)
 

Hothouse Flower

Well-Known Forumite
We are going to have to agree to disagree.

While I can see that both of you certainly go to much time and trouble to ensure that you think they are goingto good homes I still feel that it's not necessarily a dogs right to be allowed to have a litter of puppies, they are dogs not humans.

Personally I don't believe that anyone who is out of the house for more than 5 hours a day should have a dog either. Dogs are social creatures and are not meant to be left alone for long periods....( going off subject slightly).

We have a 2 year old Westie and while I might have been tempted to see what her puppies would have been like I realised that it would have been a selfish and irresponsible decision.

I do agree though that a some dogs from rescue centres would not always make good pets but a good rescue centre will always match the right dog to the right family.

Oh, and I totally agree that lots of humans shouldn't be allowed to breed either.
 

Gadget

Well-Known Forumite
So what happens then? All dogs and cats are prevented from breeding full stop, all animals get adopted or left to die in shelters. Then what? They all die out? Someone, somewhere has to breed them (presuming that the species is to continue) who is going to decide on who that should be?
It's terrible that there are abandoned animals out there and of course people should adopt them, but a lot of the time they won't or are classed as unsuitable by the shelters, because of where they live or if they have children. Our dog and cat are rescue's. Puppy mills should be banned. But not all breeders are puppy farms, they take time and trouble to make sure their pup get a good home, many often are more than willing to take the pup back if there is a problem, even years after the fact. They really don't deserve to be tarred with the same brush as those who think only of the cash.
Yes this is a very contoversial subject as is whether people should be allowed to breed. The nazi's tried that once....
G
 

wmrcomputers

Stafford PC & laptop repair specialist
We are going to have to agree to disagree.

Personally I don't believe that anyone who is out of the house for more than 5 hours a day should have a dog either. Dogs are social creatures and are not meant to be left alone for long periods....( going off subject slightly).

Oh, and I totally agree that lots of humans shouldn't be allowed to breed either.

Two points we CAN agree on ;)
 

wmrcomputers

Stafford PC & laptop repair specialist
It's terrible that there are abandoned animals out there and of course people should adopt them, but a lot of the time they won't or are classed as unsuitable by the shelters, because of where they live or if they have children.
G
Precisely what I meant.... we ourselves were told by 2 different rehoming shelters that we weren't likely to find a suitable dog with them because of us having young children and they couldn't risk it as they don't know enough about the background of the animals. They suggested we spend our hard earned money on a puppy instead. (which we did, and found our gorgeous lap-dogs - thanks to there being a similar minded owners who chose to allow their dogs to have just one litter)
 

flossietoo

Well-Known Forumite
We have a 2 year old Westie....
You have a Westie? The first dog love of my life was a Westie. Having longed, unsuccessfully for a dog of my own, I took to following dog owners home and putting notes through their doors offering to walk their dogs (this was pre CRB checks!) several were astonishingly kind and took this strange lonely child,, with their dogs, onto Cannock Chase, Stafford Common, all over. Eventually a man asked if I'd walk his Westie. His wife was disabled and he was out at work. I don't know if they knew what they were taking on - I turned up every day between the ages of 12 and 18. When I got back from uni, I wanted to visit the Westie before I saw anyone else. He was a wonderful kind, stubborn and brave dog whom I still miss.
 

henryscat

Well-Known Forumite
Our dog has just had puppies. Does that make us irresponsible?

To an extent, yes.

Do you sell them?

The pups we raise are good natured and quite a "wanted breed". We have no problem at all in finding them good homes

Good homes that could have gone to other dogs.

Sorry to seem narked, but it really does P**S me off that everyone assumes you are irresponsible to allow your dog to breed. It does NOT make you irresponsible unless it is done in an irresponsible manner without thought or consideration.

Yes it does, the irresponsibility comes in because there are thousands of homeless dogs and you add to the population taking up homes that could have gone to them.


Going on to your comments about the unwanted dogs in homes etc... I totally agree and this is a crying shame,

You obviously don't agree strongly though, because your actions contradict that statement.

however many of those dogs have been mistreated to a point where they would not make a suitable pet for (an example) a family with small children.

No, a lot of dogs, cats and other animals end up in shelters for all sorts of reasons - a lot are nothing to do with mis-treatment (though sadly a proportion are). Their owner (don't like that word, animals aren't property) may have died, got divorced, had to move to accommodation where pets are not allowed and so on. Animals that have sadly been mis-treated in the past can be perfectly fine in a family environment.

I also believe that nature should allow a bitch to have at least one litter before being neutered.

On what basis do you believe that? You eat meat and dairy.... Should nature allow you to eat cow's milk, intended for a calf taken from its mother and not meant for humans? Does nature allow for animals to be raped so you can eat and consume from them?

You also keep chickens. Does nature intend for all male chickens to be murdered so you can keep the female ones for their unfertilised eggs?

I've heard the "nature should allow them to have a litter" argument before and I don't think it holds much water at all.
 

wmrcomputers

Stafford PC & laptop repair specialist
You obviously have some very strong animal rights notions - which of course is your right.
You say that these "homes could have gone to other dogs". Sorry, but you are wrong. I could personally take you to three homes which have pups from our previous litter that will point blank tell you that they would have NEVER risked having a dog from a rehoming shelter. They only wanted a pup so that it could grow with their family.

As I have also said, two different animal shelters in the past have told us that because we had small children, they could not and would not risk us rehoming ANY of the dogs they had incase they were to unexpectedly turn on the children. THIS IS A FACT.

I DO strongly agree that it's awful how many dogs end up in rehoming. However, the people I have sold to would never have had one from a shelter - so it hasn't increased or decreased the number of homeless dogs.

I don't intend to get into any further debate about this, as I clearly said "I genuinely do not want to offend anyone", but it seems you are very easily offended on this topic.

You have strong feelings - that's your right. I love eating chickens. I love eating their eggs. I like a bit of beef. So does the majority of the country - whether it's right or wrong it's the way it's been for hundreds of years.... and that's my right.

I'm also terminating my contributions to this thread at this point. Not because I feel threatened by being challenged or anything else like that - I've had my say, and so have others. 3 "likes" of my initial response to the "irresponsibility" topic is good enough for me. I think it's just better to agree to disagree and leave it there, as these things can spiral too easily.

Nuff said, and no hard feelings :)
 

flossietoo

Well-Known Forumite
Henry's Cat I respect and admire your principles. I share quite a few of them, too. To some extent I wish I was more like you. When I became a vegetarian, a very long time ago, it was more outlandish and people seemed to see my personal choice as some kind of challenge. I got into plenty of arguments and eventually realised that I was never going to make anyone change their minds through sheer force of will - just as they couldn't make me eat a burger. Occasionally, someone will eat something I've cooked and be surprised (more often, it will be burnt and we'll have a sandwich) they may switch some of their regular meat meals for something vegetarian as a result. For me, it's enough that I don't eat meat and that everyone else leaves me alone to get on with it!
I have thought a lot about why those puppies brought me so much pleasure and to be honest, I think part of it is addressing that awful, unspoken dread of any dog owner, that one day your companion isn't going to be there. I waited many, many years until I got my first dog. She's totally worth it. I can't bear to think about losing her but when that time comes, seeing a little of her stubborn, determined and totally wonderful spirit continue in her puppies (we kept one) will mean a great deal. So yes, that's selfish. But in the great scheme of things, probably not cruelty.
 

wmrcomputers

Stafford PC & laptop repair specialist
I've had to return just to add a comment from my wife (something which I had completely forgotten). We did once get a dog from a dogs home. A lovely cross breed around 2 years old. We were told he'd had an older owner which had died and that there wouldn't be any issues as he was great with kids.
Our (at the time) 3 year old son was sat watching TV with us when the "lovely" dog turned without any warning at all and bit his face.
We have 3 dogs now. We've had them all from pups. They are loyal, loving lap dogs and I've never had to hesitate to leave the room while my kids are there. Now ask me if I'd rehome another one from a shelter. If I was a single bloke or we had no children, then yes I would - and in many years time when the kids have all grown up and left home it is certainly a high possibility. But as it stands, with young children - never.
 

grumpystaffordguy

Well-Known Forumite
To answer the original post I know someone with kittens at the moment although I wont see them again until next Sunday now. Message me if you are after one.

With regards breeding dogs WMR is quite right in that if you have a family, especially with small children you cant just introduce a rescue dog as you have no way of knowing its background and if it may bite. To a lesser extent if you have a cat its risky bringing a dog home as well.
I would happily re-home a dog, but as I have young children and two cats we ended up with a puppy from the rescue centre. Its a real shame as there were I'm sure plenty of dogs that may have been suitable, but you have to put the kids safety first.

Personally I'm not in to the dog breeding thing myself and I don't like these silly designer dogs. A dog is a pet, some might even say a family member, but it shouldn't be a fashion accessory. These people you see about with labshitpoo things just look foolish for spending a fortune on a mongrel!

What does henryscat think about people having babies then? There are plenty of kids in the world that could do with a home....
 

henryscat

Well-Known Forumite
I realise there are clearly different views on where you should get a dog from, but please can people stop perpetuating the myth that you cannot have a rescue dog if you have children - it is simply untrue.

There are some rescue dogs that will not be suitable for homes with children or other animals, which I accept. However, there are plenty of rescue dogs with known histories or known temprements where they can quite safely be rehomed with a family. Plenty of families with children have re-homed dogs. It is unfair of people to perpetuate myths that could quite unnecessarily put others off having a rescue dog when they otherwise might have done.

It also not true to imply that just because a dog is from a breeder that it is perfectly safe with children... With all dogs, regardless of breed or where they are from, some common sense and caution is needed.
 

henryscat

Well-Known Forumite
When I became a vegetarian, a very long time ago, it was more outlandish and people seemed to see my personal choice as some kind of challenge.

Many people still do I think...!

I got into plenty of arguments and eventually realised that I was never going to make anyone change their minds through sheer force of will - just as they couldn't make me eat a burger

Indeed, but I think a lot of people are making their minds up without being aware of some basic facts - some people will make a different decision in light of being more aware, although some would still make the same decision.


I have thought a lot about why those puppies brought me so much pleasure and to be honest, I think part of it is addressing that awful, unspoken dread of any dog owner, that one day your companion isn't going to be there. I waited many, many years until I got my first dog. She's totally worth it. I can't bear to think about losing her but when that time comes, seeing a little of her stubborn, determined and totally wonderful spirit continue in her puppies (we kept one) will mean a great deal. So yes, that's selfish. But in the great scheme of things, probably not cruelty.

It's not a straightforward issue, but the bigger picture is that there is an over-population of dogs, cats, and other animals without homes that shelters have to deal with, so the question is how can that be tackled? As with anything I don't think there is a single magic answer. One way is to discourage wherever possible people from allowing their pets to breed, as this is a very real problem. Equally people who create a demand from breeders for dogs that are seen as an accessory rather than a long term commitment and the breeders who breed those dogs that all too often end up in rescue shelters because people drop them after a few months also bear some responsibility. Staffordshire Bull Terriers spring to mind - there seem to be a lot in rescue places. I can see where you are coming from with wishng to see your dog live on, as for most people their companion animals are an important and loved member of the family. At the same time I'm aware lots of animals don't have a proper home or family, so it's not an easy subject. Of course there are other ways of helping out rescue animals that don't involve adoption like considering making a donation.

I also think that if people decide not to have a dog from a rescue, the very least they can do is not create the myth that all rescue dogs are unsuitable for families and put others off.
 

grumpystaffordguy

Well-Known Forumite
henryscat have you been down a rescue centre recently and asked them what dogs they have that are suitable for a family with young children and cats? Some rescue places told us not to even bother coming down as they wouldn't want to risk it.
Is this something you actually have experience of? We have had both our dogs from rescue places as puppies and as part of that we spent a lot of time trying to find a suitable dog. Personally I don't like puppies or the mess they make so believe you me I would have rather have had a nice, sensible mature dog to start with.
 
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