Wanted Kittens

Status
Not open for further replies.

henryscat

Well-Known Forumite
Your experience, which represents a small proportion of rescue places and dogs at a particular point in time does not equate to there being no rescue dogs suitable for rehoming with families. You are continuing to perpetuate a myth. So, I'd like to reiterate: I accept some (operative word) dogs are not suitable for homing with families or other animals, however a significant proportion are absolutely fine. I'd also reiterate that many rescue dogs have known histories.

You (and others) have provided no sound basis for your assertions, so it is unfair of you to try to put others off having a rescue dog if they have a family. The two are not mutually exclusive.

It is also naive to think that having a dog from elsewhere, e.g. a breeder, is completely risk free as is implicit in some of the postings made previously.
 

Gadget

Well-Known Forumite
Most rescue centers will not let you rehome an animal if you have children under 5! Fact! Try as you might you won't get them to allow it. It has nothing to do with putting folk off. It has everything to do with them not letting you.
 

Hothouse Flower

Well-Known Forumite
I've had to return just to add a comment from my wife (something which I had completely forgotten). We did once get a dog from a dogs home. A lovely cross breed around 2 years old. We were told he'd had an older owner which had died and that there wouldn't be any issues as he was great with kids.
Our (at the time) 3 year old son was sat watching TV with us when the "lovely" dog turned without any warning never.

I do believe that the dogs home was at fault here. Any dog used to an older owner should never be re homed with a family.

There are good dogs homes and others that think they are doing society a favour but don't really have the experience to follow it through.
 

Hothouse Flower

Well-Known Forumite
Most rescue centers will not let you rehome an animal if you have children under 5! Fact! Try as you might you won't get them to allow it. It has nothing to do with putting folk off. It has everything to do with them not letting you.

Poppycock. This is not fact at all.

As I said in the above post, not all dogs homes have the neseccary experience to deal with every eventuality.
 

Alan B'Stard

Well-Known Forumite
henryscat have you been down a rescue centre recently and asked them what dogs they have that are suitable for a family with young children and cats? Some rescue places told us not to even bother coming down as they wouldn't want to risk it.
Is this something you actually have experience of.

Interestingly, having discussed this thread some many hours before with a fellow forumite and coming to the conclusion that henryscat does not respond to any direct questions he cannot answer, it's interesting to see that this one remains unanswered, so I'll ask it again.

Surely three times will get a response?

henryscat have you been down a rescue centre recently and asked them what dogs they have that are suitable for a family with young children and cats? Some rescue places told us not to even bother coming down as they wouldn't want to risk it.
Is this something you actually have experience of.
 

wmrcomputers

Stafford PC & laptop repair specialist
Both hothouseflower and henryscat are saying that dogs homes would not have told some of us that they would not allow us to have a dog. Certainly not reputable shelters. Name me a shelter locally that you consider reputable and I'll bet it's one of them that said this.

Sorry to be stern, but as gadget has also said this IS A FACT. You are blatantly calling us liers!! It has been said at 2 dogs homes that I would have thought are considered reputable and is what led us to buying our jackalier puppy from a home breeder. She's gone on to be an extremely important member of our family and our home would never be the same without her - so I've no regrets buying from a breeder in any case. One of her sons lives just over the road (spayed I may add), and another lives at Rising brook with our best friends where he has bought a new lease of life to their older dog. Another is lapping it up in luxury with his own patch on the sofa in Portsmouth with my family (also spayed I may add) where he brings joy to everyone on the estate. Do I feel bad for breeding her???...

1. FACT that most dogs homes do not allow or recommend rehoming a dog if you have younger children, so some families therefore need puppies
2. Puppies are a VERY RARE find in dogs homes

In short, no I don't feel bad.
My family in Portsmouth could have rehomed a dog, yes. Do they want a big dog (90% of what's in shelters)? NO. Do they want a Staffy? (Again a huge percentage of what is in shelters) NO. Did they want a dog whereby they knew the temperament of it's parents? YES.
Therefore has having a pup from someone who has bred their dog increased the number in shelters or failed to reduce it? NO. Again this is FACT.

The only thing I will agree on massively is the overbreeding of what I call "Status" dogs, where the novelty soon wears off as they start destroying your home. (Such as Staffies). I regularly have a look around dogs homes and can't believe how many of these breeds end up there. I feel for them. It's not their fault. So would I home one? NO - My kids might be naughty but don't deserve to be eaten. I also like my home and don't decorate for the fun of it.
 

henryscat

Well-Known Forumite
Interestingly, having discussed this thread some many hours before with a fellow forumite and coming to the conclusion that henryscat does not respond to any direct questions he cannot answer, it's interesting to see that this one remains unanswered, so I'll ask it again.

Surely three times will get a response?

Plenty of people on this forum choose to ignore questions, I haven't noticed you take them to task for it. I haven't answered it thus far because I don't consider it a particularly relevant question to the discussion. However, no I haven't asked a local dog shelter if they have a dog suitable for children and cats. It's an unfair question in any case since a dog that is harmless to a child may not be to a cat.
 

henryscat

Well-Known Forumite
On the subject of unanswered questions, WMR hasn't answered the one about if he sold the puppies? And if so how much for?
 

henryscat

Well-Known Forumite
Name me a shelter locally that you consider reputable and I'll bet it's one of them that said this.

Not going to get into naming shelters in this context, it isn't fair on them.

Sorry to be stern, but as gadget has also said this IS A FACT.

Putting things in capitals doesn't make any difference - people with families can and do have rescue dogs.

buying our jackalier puppy from a home breeder. She's gone on to be an extremely important member of our family and our home would never be the same without her - so I've no regrets buying from a breeder in any case.

Hopefully a breeder that knew what they were doing and presumably checked that your dogs wouldn't be inheriting one of the genetic defects that afflicts a lot of Cavaliers.

so some families therefore need puppies

Interesting choice of words which says a lot... They do not "need" a puppy at all. They have choices. Those choices also include not having a dog, and waiting until their kids are a little older when their home environment might be better suited for some dogs.


2. Puppies are a VERY RARE find in dogs homes

Don't know the proportions off the top of my head but perhaps that's because people breed their dogs at home then sell puppies for a profit. Did you sell yours? How much for?

My family in Portsmouth could have rehomed a dog, yes. Do they want a big dog (90% of what's in shelters)? NO. Do they want a Staffy? (Again a huge percentage of what is in shelters) NO. Did they want a dog whereby they knew the temperament of it's parents? YES.

Again, you are mis-leading. There are a lot of Staffies in shelters, but there are a lot of other dogs too of all sizes. If you were really keen on a particular breed you could go to a shelter for that specific breed (you will also find more of the dogs in breed specific shelters have known histories).

Therefore has having a pup from someone who has bred their dog increased the number in shelters or failed to reduce it? NO. Again this is FACT.

No it isn't fact. Putting it in capital letters doesn't make any difference either. In global terms, there are too many dogs and part of the problem is people allowing their dogs to breed.
 

wmrcomputers

Stafford PC & laptop repair specialist
I could argue back at every point you've tried to pick fault at.... but then you'll call me a liar again and again because you are obviously one of those people that think yours is the only opinion that counts. I'm sorry. You're right. You must be.

Definate end to my participation in the thread or I'm gonna say something I regret. I've been called many things, but a liar I am not. (and saying it indirectly or INDIRECTLY makes no difference either... the implication of "liar" is still there.)

/derail on my part. Good luck in finding a kitten poster :up: :)
 

Hothouse Flower

Well-Known Forumite
I was not calling you a liar, I just said that a reputable home will not tell a family they can't have a suitable dog but will match the right dog to the right family. If you have been told that a family with children should not rehome a dog then I believe you but I also believe the dogs home not to be experienced enough to deal with these issues ( in the way that Battersea would).

Do I know any good dogs homes in Staffordshire? No, I don't, but that's not to say that there aren't any, just that I don't know of an either by experience or reputation.
 

wmrcomputers

Stafford PC & laptop repair specialist
Just give you a response to that hothouse flower - one of the dogs homes that specifically told us this was Sunnyside - RAN BY BATTERSEA DOGS HOME!
Also wanted to point out that I realise you hadn't called me a liar - my response above was to the previous poster specifically and I apologise for any confusion caused.

And before the aforementioned individual quotes me AGAIN, I am not saying that Sunnyside aren't a reputable dogs home... they are. They also do match dogs to homes. In most cases they don't have a dog suitable for families with young children - their own words. They suggested we look for a puppy online instead. Again their own words.
 

grumpystaffordguy

Well-Known Forumite
Henryscat do you have a dog? If so where did you get the dog from please?

Its fair to say you don't get that many puppies in rescue places, but I think that's for two reasons. The first is that it is quite easy to offload cute little puppies to friends, family or work colleagues. The second is that they get snapped up really quickly from the rescue places. I reckon that they will sell a litter within a week. Three of the puppies from the litter we had our dog from went whilst we were there (an hour on a Saturday afternoon). How many adult dogs did I see leave in that time? Zero. How many Kittens? Two. How many adult cats? Zero.

I'm actually a bit suspicious of how many puppies they had at the rescue place we got our current dog from. Three litters to pick from was surprising. However what they told me was the collies were from a local farmer who keeps the good ones and gets rid of the others. Even our mongrel was £130 (Think a collie was £160) though so its a decent income for the rescue place and must go a fair way to paying for the older dogs. Well either that or its just profit for the owner as they feed the dogs next to nothing. The reason why my wife had our dog was you could see every bone sticking out and he looked half dead! Seriously friends and family were shocked as he looked like something off of an RSPCA rescue video. I should say this "rescue" centre is not in Stafford. The local one told us not to bother coming down as we had young children hence we looked elsewhere. Hopefully you can see there was a genuine intention to rehome an adult dog, but it just didn't work out that way.

Did I mention a family friend used to run an animal rescue charity? I still don't claim that makes me an expert in any way or that I am right, but I can say that my opinion is formed from not just my own experience, but what I have learned from that person as well.

There is another way though that I don't think we have mentioned yet. Try looking online at websites where the owner is looking to rehome the dog. One such website we found was preloved. We spent about a week looking through the adverts, but we didn't see the right dog locally. In truth most of them were staffies which we didn't want as if they were to bite one of the kids they can do so much damage.

Anyway I think the other point was about people breeding dogs. There is a big difference between breeding dogs for profit and your own dog getting pregnant. If you are breeding dogs to make money then you know you can sell them. If you know you can sell them then they are not surplus. Supply and demand. People that don't bother to have a dog neutered and it has puppies are more likely to be the ones who end up with unwanted dogs.

I think perhaps henryscats views would be more relevant to cats than dogs?...
 

Trapnest

Well-Known Forumite
That's a shame. :(

We adopted a young cat from the RSPCA towards the end of April. I'm not sure we could afford or handle another as much as I'd love to. She doesn't fight, but doesn't like other cats, but if we were to get a second, it'd have to be a kitten so she could raise it. But we couldn't afford all the fees and food for another. Thank you for he thought though.

They say it is a cats right to bear a litter of kittens, same for a dog. What right do you have to say they shouldn't breed? You don't see mums tying their teenage daughters with 2 kids tubes! And that's hardly responsible letting them breed! :p (So many just for benefits, accidents, or sly plans for money, though I know a lot of (were) teen mums who raised their kids well, but point still stands) As long as you can care for the offspring, I see no problem having them! Now if they end up in a box on the street or you're breeding for money, that's irresponsible. But not everyone is like that. They're not just animals! They're family members! And a lot of people do see them that way! Everyone, no matter the species has the right to be a parent. Becoming a parent it life changing for any animal, especially humans.

I'm on the fence about it all tbh. I think animals should be allowed to have a litter, but they system is already heavily burdened by all of the animals needing homes. But using this to make money or for peoples own selfish needs just makes me angry.
 

Trapnest

Well-Known Forumite
also, the RSPCA had to do a home check. My partner and I checked all the boxes ourselves, but being very picky about living not far from a main road (couple of roads away) and not having a massive garden, they said we couldn't have a young cat/kitten (even though our mitzeee is about 4 they count that as young and only let us have her as she's very domesticated and quite indorsy) but they said that the older cats they had were unsuitable if we had children. That means if we had kids, we'd not have been able to adopt at all! They're very strict with their rules and I imagine it's the same with dogs. They have best interests in mind but also if something were to happen, it'd blow back badly on them too.
 

henryscat

Well-Known Forumite
They say it is a cats right to bear a litter of kittens, same for a dog. What right do you have to say they shouldn't breed?

An interesting question.. It is complicated by the fact that the domesticated dog / cat population is something of a human creation. If we were talking wild animals then my view would be no right at all, leave them to it as the wild animal population tends to balance itself. Where cats and dogs are concerned, we have created a large population of domesticated dogs and cats... having done that, humans bear a certain amount of responsibility to consider the interests of that population. Overall, if dogs and cats were allowed to breed without control we would then create (have created?) an overpopulation problem, so overall it is in the better interests of cat / dog welfare if they are neutered / spayed. The human creation of a huge domestic cat population (and I am very much a cat person by the way) also has other welfare implications for other wildlife populations like birds and mice.

As long as you can care for the offspring, I see no problem having them!

But the flip side is that rescue shelters are pretty much permanently full and people deliberately adding to cat/dog populations does not help that situation one bit. There's a further consideration that cats (particularly) are raving carnivores and the greater the population, the more animals are killed to feed them. Dogs can be quite happy on a veggie diet mind you.

Now if they end up in a box on the street or you're breeding for money, that's irresponsible.

Agreed, and there are posters who won't answer the question about if they sold their puppies and if so how much for.

They're not just animals! They're family members! And a lot of people do see them that way! Everyone, no matter the species has the right to be a parent. Becoming a parent it life changing for any animal, especially humans.

Agree they are not just animals - absolutely. This raises another interesting set of questions since people are completely inconsistent and essentially hypocritical in their beliefs about animals they live with and animals they kill, eat, or consume from. It is interesting you mention that species shouldn't have a bearing on the right to be a parent... If you extend that line of thinking then arguably the inevitable conclusion is that species is not a basis for discrimination. Although attaching rights in the literal sense to animals isn't always appropriate - going along the Peter Singer line of thinking, you would not wish to give your cat the right to vote (though it may well choose more wisely than some voters...), however, species should not be a basis for discrimination and that all species do have the right to equal consideration of interests.

Just moving onto the point about being a parent being life changing for any animal, I would tend to agree... Having accepted that thought, apply it to cows. On what basis is it acceptable to deprive a cow of its child (which causes the same level of distress as if a human had a child taken away at a couple of weeks old), several times during its life, so that humans can consume dairy products?

but they system is already heavily burdened by all of the animals needing homes. But using this to make money or for peoples own selfish needs just makes me angry.

I agree, the system is overloaded.

On the money point, it is interesting again to extend the logic. Is there any difference in the ethics of making money out of breeding cats compared to breeding cows or any other animals?

Some will probably consider I've gone completely off topic now, but it is all inter-related. Until we treat all animals equally and stop discriminating on the basis of species, then ultimately animal (and human) welfare will not improve.
 

grumpystaffordguy

Well-Known Forumite
Oh come on now henryscat are you not going to answer any direct questions? Its not an unreasonable question for someone to ask if you have any experience in the area that you are talking about. Its not like we are asking about your sex life or finances.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top