Leave or Remain?

basil

don't mention the blinds
Jezza appears to be playing it cool whilst allowing the Prime Minister to dig his own grave.

Blimey if only such a scoundrel were our chief negotiator......
 

Noah

Well-Known Forumite
It's barely a single century ago that the first woman voted in the UK.

10 January 1918 was the date some women gained the right to vote in parliamentary elections. Some women had the right to vote in some local elections long before this.
 

Studio Tan

Well-Known Forumite
brexitnow.jpg
 

Withnail

Well-Known Forumite
Actually at most of our social occasions, because my friends tend to be very interesting people with lots going on in their lives, the conversation is usually extremely lively without veering off into politics.
Without wishing to labour the point, any caution advised should be also taken with a pinch of - it was a crude way of making the point that anyone thinking that way must be either a dimwit or a player - everyone has redeeming qualities.

Except Ukip voters - is it just me or have you noticed that they have no redeeming qualities whatsoever?
 

Withnail

Well-Known Forumite
My Favourite Thing about the way our relationship with all the Other Members of the Union that we are a part of has been the way that it has Always Seemed to Be as if we have been Ebbing and Flowing With the tides.
 

Tilly

Well-Known Forumite
Jezza appears to be playing it cool whilst allowing the Prime Minister to dig his own grave.

Blimey if only such a scoundrel were our chief negotiator......
A technical approach to the Northern Ireland border issue seems to have been secretly trialled.

001167ff-800.jpg
*

RTÉ News said - A nuclear-powered Royal Navy submarine has been involved in a near-miss with a ferry.

An investigation has been opened into the previously unreported incident, which occurred in the Irish Sea on 6 November.

The ferry was Stena Superfast VII, which operates between Northern Ireland and Scotland.

It has a capacity for 1,300 passengers and 660 cars.

The submarine was submerged at the depth needed to extend its periscope above the surface of the water.

The Royal Navy would not confirm which of its ten submarines was involved.

They are all nuclear-powered, but only four carry Trident nuclear missiles.

A spokesman for the Marine Accident Investigation Branch (MAIB) said: "In November, we were notified of a close-quarters incident between the ro-ro (roll-on/roll-off) ferry Stena Superfast VII and a submarine operating at periscope depth.

"We have carried out a preliminary assessment of the evidence in this case and the Chief Inspector of Marine Accidents has decided to open a safety investigation.

"The investigation is being conducted with the full co-operation of the Royal Navy. A report will be published when our investigation has concluded."

A navy spokesman said: "We can confirm the sighting of a Royal Navy submarine between Belfast and Stranraer on 6 November 2018.

"We are co-operating with the MAIB's investigation."

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/201...kunCpJC49Kxnun2heq90QGPGvvaGHqgEBhsKjBQXCDWfM

* Not necessarily the boat in question.

 

Cue

Well-Known Forumite
We’re now at a stage where the government may bait the opposition with a Vote of No Confidence, which can cause a GE but can also just meant the opposition form a majority government (easy right now)

But the ultimate goal is so that Boris is no the one pulling the trigger on an extension.

Let’s see how this one plays out. He’s running out of options and it’s imperative that he’s the one to pull the trigger or he’ll just spend the entire GE rooting on about how the opposition extended the deadline. The General Population will fall for it hook, line and sinker and we’ll end up with BXP-Lite fully manning the majority.

Make no mistake. This is a cull of Remainer Tory MPs and a move further to the right for the Tory party
 

tek-monkey

wanna see my snake?
The way I see it if we had a GE now we stand a chance of a Labour government, as too many that wanted brexit think no deal is stupid. Once no deal is removed a lot of tory defectors will go back to the party and the conservatives will be in a healthier position, but those brainwashed* to think no deal is the best solution will go to the brexit party. Will that be enough to split the conservatives? I don't know. Maybe we should have the GE without telling anyone what the deal is, just like the referendum, and we can merely vote on no deal / deal / no brexit? Thats fair isn't it? ;)


* Yes, brainwashed. We have to deal with them at some point, no matter what you like to believe all facts prove it will hurt us a lot more than them. Hell, worst hit is Ireland and they just want us gone now! No deal is not leverage, in the last 3 years it has only stifled our negotiations.
 

BobClay

Well-Known Forumite
Here is the news:
An enormous asteroid has been observed on a collision course with Earth. At 25 kilometres in diameter, this is classed as a complete 'planet killer' and it will strike the Earth at …...

JUST A MOMENT, JUST A MOMENT ….

BREAKING NEWS … BREAKING NEWS !!!!!!

There's been more dithering in Parliament !!! :eek::teef::heyhey:
 

Tilly

Well-Known Forumite
If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear

 
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tek-monkey

wanna see my snake?
I've posted this on FB before buggering off for the weekend, should make some interesting reading when back. But thought I'd post it here too in case anyone had any thoughts, this forum feels the polar opposite of my FB feed.




Looking at Johnsons quote from the other day:

Johnson has dubbed it the “surrender bill” and said it has scuppered his Brexit negotiations with the EU by removing the threat of leaving without a deal. On Thursday he said he would rather be “dead in a ditch” than delay Britain’s EU exit.

Why do people keep saying no deal is just leverage, why do you believe him, how thick are you? If you, some random person on the internet, know it is leverage, why do you think the EU does not? How can a bluff work when the other person knows you are bluffing? This isn't poker, both sides are well aware what cards the other holds, and no deal will hurt the UK much worse than the EU however you look at it.

Since getting into number 10 Johnson has not only failed to table any actual negotiations, he's reduced his negotiating staff by 75% and tried to ensure it can't even be discussed in Parliament. Does that sound like someone that wants a deal? As a dutch lawmaker put it recently:

“He’s totally unrealistic. He’s saying if you don’t do what I say, I’ll commit suicide. There are no negotiations with this government.”

He wants no deal to go through, yet so many keep bleating on that it's just leverage. Open your eyes and just admit it, you want no deal. Stop pretending it's some bargaining chip and just be honest with yourselves, just because Johnson lies to you doesn't mean you have to lie to yourselves.

Then tell me how no deal benefits us as a country? We have to deal with the EU, they make up half of our trade both in and out (but less than 10% of theirs). We have no choice but to make a deal at some point, but from outside that will take several years. What deal are we after once out? Why not try to get that now rather than ruin our economy for a few years first ensuring we are in a worse position than we are now? Don't forget we need to make trade deals with everyone else too, we're starting from scratch here, when we could start with 50% of it sorted.

If no deal is our ultimate leverage then using it ensures we have no leverage left. How will we strike a deal then?

I'm resigned to the fact we're leaving, but I can't get my head around the idea of destroying our country in the process. The whole no deal as leverage feels like we're admitting we actually have no real bargaining chip other than going home and taking our ball with us. But the EU already have other balls, and we need to find new people to play with.
 
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