Mr Lefroy Set To Make A Big Announcement On Monday ?

BobClay

Well-Known Forumite
Being a 'miserable bastard' is possibly the only hope the human race has got. :crossarms:

Click !! (shit, another empty chamber.) Click !! (shit, two in a row.) Click ……..:lolsmash:
 

Withnail

Well-Known Forumite
We could even go down the argument that those who voted to leave didn't know what they were voting for (although I certainly did) Stafford voted to Leave.
We could, yes. In fact let's.

No Deal" does not exist - plenty of other countries trade on WTO rules.

Which rather leads to the question - if this was the implicit state of affairs on the basis of what was argued in 2016, why did so many of our Leave protagonists spend so much of their time trying to convince you that voting Leave would NOT mean a 'no-deal'/WTO type future?

Because everybody now trying to phrase the arguments of 2016 in the realities of 2019 doesn't actually have to live in darkness, please enjoy some light -

https://mobile.twitter.com/EmporersNewC/status/1113547733300842497
 

Really?

Well-Known Forumite
We could, yes. In fact let's.



Which rather leads to the question - if this was the implicit state of affairs on the basis of what was argued in 2016, why did so many of our Leave protagonists spend so much of their time trying to convince you that voting Leave would NOT mean a 'no-deal'/WTO type future?

Because everybody now trying to phrase the arguments of 2016 in the realities of 2019 doesn't actually have to live in darkness, please enjoy some light -

https://mobile.twitter.com/EmporersNewC/status/1113547733300842497

You seem to revel in deciding what I was told and who told me, assuming I am incapable of investigating for myself or forming my own opinion- a typical tactic of the Remoaners- pick their fight - have a dig and then move on before anyone notices. They discuss whatthey want to discuss based on what they believe I believe. I have lost count of the number of them who have told me that the referendum should be declared void because Leave "broke the law by overspending £1.4 million" and yet refuse to discuss the £8 million Cameron spent on the first Remain leaflet that CamerCON sent to every household- apparently that doesn't count because it was before the official campaign launch.

... and should you really be relying on the opinion of or following someone on Twatter who has the time to write 45,000 posts? and following 4,000 people - I would suggest he neither has the time to "analyse or think about the opinions of those 4,000 people and no time to live in the real world. As for calling himself a political analyst - just another word for "opinionated twat"
 

Withnail

Well-Known Forumite
You seem to revel in ..
Well ima gonna stop you right there - i haven't 'revel' ed in anything for probably close to a decade now.
...deciding what I was told and who told me, assuming I am incapable of investigating for myself or forming my own opinion- a typical tactic of the Remoaners- pick their fight - have a dig and then move on before anyone notices. They discuss whatthey want to discuss based on what they believe I believe. I have lost count of the number of them who have told me that the referendum should be declared void because Leave "broke the law by overspending £1.4 million" and yet refuse to discuss the £8 million Cameron spent on the first Remain leaflet that CamerCON sent to every household- apparently that doesn't count because it was before the official campaign launch.

... and should you really be relying on the opinion of or following someone on Twatter who has the time to write 45,000 posts? and following 4,000 people - I would suggest he neither has the time to "analyse or think about the opinions of those 4,000 people and no time to live in the real world. As for calling himself a political analyst - just another word for "opinionated twat"
You seem to revel in the state of being almost inconsolably angry. How's that working out for you?

You don't seem to leave room to address what was the thrust of the argument put forth in quite some detail above, viz, if it was the case that voting Leave was explicitly a vote for leaving without a Deal, why were the proponents of Leave, such as Daniel 'absolutely no one is talking about threatening our place in the single market' Hannan for example, quite so explicit that this wasn't a projected outcome?

Because they knew that selling us out to the unelected WTO beaurocrats of Geneva, with the dead hand of Russia, Argentina, and anyone else we've pissed off over the last few hundred years - spoiler alert, it's a feckin lot - would be shot out of the water if that was our prime strategy.

Boris Johnson admits in one of the clips in the 'twatter' stream you so deride that there is no plan for a ' no deal' because it isn't even envisaged - they need us more than we need them, remember? I'm not 'deciding' what you were told I was fecking here to hear it. Don't hold on to a mistake just because you have invested so much in making it.

You are on the wrong side here, man up and admit it.
 
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Withnail

Well-Known Forumite
- a typical tactic of the Remoaners- pick their fight - have a dig and then move on before anyone notices...
I have picked my fight.

I contend that during the referendum debate of 2016, the various Leave advocates were unanimous in one respect only - that the UK would Leave the European Union with a Deal that would mean the UK would retain most if not all of the benefits they enjoyed as Members, without sacrificing many or indeed any of those benefits.

That the electorate of the UK voted to Leave the European Union believing that the benefits of Membership could be had without any of the Responsibilities concomitant to its participation.

This was an outright fiction sold to them by purveyors of snake oil and dissolution, a vision dreamt of only by fantasists and encouraged by Disaster Capitalists.

Here we are three years later and the narrative from our Leave gurus has magically changed - now we are led to believe that a vote to Leave was actually a vote for dissolution and disaster - it's almost like they aren't the voice of the common man at all.

Have you noticed that I haven't even started on the funding thing?

I'm here, and will Remain so, if you'd like to carry this on.
 

Really?

Well-Known Forumite
I'm certainly not angry, more bemused and amused by it all. We have a parliament that is overwhelmingly in favour of remaining so they can continue riding their own little gravy train, trying to convince everyone else that it would be a bad idea to stop it. I really have no worries about a WTO deal and all this nonsense about "crashing out" and "disaster" is just more of the snake oil you talk about. It amuses me that we would want to be any part of a group who treats people who wish to leave in such a bullying manner and it also amuses me how little we are being told of what is actually being said in other countries. I have relatives in 3 different countries in the EU- all of which tell me that, while they would love us to remain (they need our money), their news channels are far more aggressive towards the EU and the way they are treating us.
We signed up to a common market, not a federal Europe. Even Maggie Thatcher saw the writing on the wall for the EU (and I can't abide her)

The reason we have not left "with a deal" is because we have inept politicians who are incapable of negotiating. There has been no negotiation, mainly because our parliament doesn't want to leave. We sent politicians with little experience of negotiating and an arrogant attitude to deal with skilled and practiced negotiators- the EU must have been laughing from day one. Remember the pictures of the EU turning up with "bundles of files" while our bloke had a pen? - it's been stage managed by the EU since the start.

We demanded something - the EU said no - we panicked and didn't know what to do next, there has been no negotiation - not a single iota of it.

In my opinion totally because the Tories saw it as a political tool to keep themselves in power rather than what it was- a situation that needed every party working together. Both Cameron and May have seen it as a personal vehicle for them and the Tory party, hence the reason for ignoring he electorate.
 
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Tilly

Well-Known Forumite
I have relatives in 3 different prisons

You have to ignore the electorate

They're thick as two buckets of snot
 

RobUSA

Well-Known Forumite
The reason we have not left "with a deal" is because we have inept politicians who are incapable of negotiating. There has been no negotiation, mainly because our parliament doesn't want to leave. We sent politicians with little experience of negotiating and an arrogant attitude to deal with skilled and practiced negotiators- the EU must have been laughing from day one. Remember the pictures of the EU turning up with "bundles of files" while our bloke had a pen? - it's been stage managed by the EU since the start.

We demanded something - the EU said no - we panicked and didn't know what to do next, there has been no negotiation - not a single iota of it.

In my opinion totally because the Tories saw it as a political tool to keep themselves in power rather than what it was- a situation that needed every party working together. Both Cameron and May have seen it as a personal vehicle for them and the Tory party, hence the reason for ignoring he electorate.


If only a candidate had thought to stand for leadership who believed in Brexit.

Guess they were all busy that day......
 

Withnail

Well-Known Forumite
We signed up to a common market, not a federal Europe.
Everybody keeps saying this as if it was true, even though it isn't, as if the Treaty of Rome didn't predate our acceptance into the fold.

The reason we have not left "with a deal" is because we have inept politicians who are incapable of negotiating.
Which is presumably why we should plough ahead with Brexit, rename it Project Inept, and start our next probably much more successful negotiations with the soft touches in the US and China? Yes? Really, Really??

I really have no worries about a WTO deal and all this nonsense about "crashing out" and "disaster" is just more of the snake oil you talk about.
It really isn't nonsense, and you really should worry about it. Read outside of your comfort zone.
 

PeterD

ST16 Represent.
I think the reason brexiters are seen as selfish chuckleheads is because they voted leave as on the whole they cant see it effecting them. Remainers tend to look at it and think indirectly it wont have an impact on my life, but its going to feck it up for others. Thats my thinking, I hope brexit wont have a major impact on my life, but I am already seeing the negative impacts not only on people I care about but others too.
 

Withnail

Well-Known Forumite
I think you are absolutely right. Sometimes it is necessary to look outside of your own interests and see a bigger picture.

One of the big differences here is that we have already done this, and this is where we are. It is not perfect, but it is at least striving to be.

Brexit seeks to rip THIS up and start again, without any understanding, in a very important sense of the word, that this is where we are after ripping it up and starting again the last time.

And it wants to do it without having a proper groundswell of determination behind it, without a proper vision of what the goal is before it, and without any care for building alliances to achieve it.

It is as empty as the promises that made it our new faux reality.

Fatally hit by the juggernaut of reality, it is thankfully already twitching by the side of the road, it will be put out of its misery soon.
 

The Hawk

Well-Known Forumite
Shame to lose someone who has done so much for the town.
original
 
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