Neighbourhood Watched

[Lunar Scorpion]

Maybe because no one has tried to bring them up to their level?

Maybe they haven't tried to raise their own level?

Maybe they don't know how to!!!

Teach them to have regard for others (try having regard for them for a start - people usually act on how you approach them) then you might find that these problems start disappearing.

Again, you're making them out as victims. Why don't they teach themselves, learn from the situation they are in and notice what the people who have left did to better themselves. Many animals are capable of learning from the actions of others, right down to the common stickleback.

There is a theory called 'Learned Helplessness', funnily enough it is based on an experiment with non-human animals. I suggest you read into it.

I'm not sure what you are referring to here, but it's no one's business how they spend their money unless it is affecting someone else in a negative way. Again, I recommend some kind of educational solution (or rehab?) - it's no good criticising people if you don't try to show them a better way of doing things (that they agree to - people don't generally respond to being told what to do, even if it is "for their own good!").

It is other peoples business when they are given money to sustain themselves

Aren't you given money to sustain yourself in the form of wages? Would you like to tell me where all your money goes? No?

Its poor money management, yet those with the least would surely grow up being the most careful with what they have.

Maybe they're used to having nothing, and act as such - especially when compared to images that we are constantly being bombarded with through the media and society in general (peer pressure and keeping up with the Jones' attitudes). I agree, it is poor money management - but if they don't have a good idea of what the priorities should be or what is important to start with, then what hope have they got?

 

[tek-monkey]

Maybe they don't know how to!!!

Funny that lots seem able to though.

There is a theory called 'Learned Helplessness', funnily enough it is based on an experiment with non-human animals. I suggest you read into it.

Maybe they should read it, I'm doing quite well for myself. Especially considering my council estate living, benefits dependant upbringing.

Aren't you given money to sustain yourself in the form of wages? Would you like to tell me where all your money goes? No?

I earn mine, and make sure I earn enough to not have a poverty / deprivation issue. I'm not given anything, its a reward for my contributions. If my contribution stops, so does my reward - my level of worth to my employer determines my monetary gain.

Maybe they're used to having nothing, and act as such - especially when compared to images that we are constantly being bombarded with through the media and society in general (peer pressure and keeping up with the Jones' attitudes). I agree, it is poor money management - but if they don't have a good idea of what the priorities should be or what is important to start with, then what hope have they got?

They could maybe go to school, and actually pass basic maths perhaps? The whole victim attitude just annoys, if they are a victim of society then their closest society is their own families. Brings it back down to being the people surely?

 

[Lunar Scorpion]

Maybe they don't know how to!!!

Funny that lots seem able to though.

There is a theory called 'Learned Helplessness', funnily enough it is based on an experiment with non-human animals. I suggest you read into it.

Maybe they should read it, I'm doing quite well for myself. Especially considering my council estate living, benefits dependant upbringing.

Stop complaining then, when you clearly have no interest in the problems or trying to solve them.

I earn mine, and make sure I earn enough to not have a poverty / deprivation issue. I'm not given anything, its a reward for my contributions. If my contribution stops, so does my reward - my level of worth to my employer determines my monetary gain.

You have clearly not been on JSA then. There is an agreement you have to stick to or your money gets stopped - and it involves looking for work, hence 'Jobseekers Allowance'.

They could maybe go to school, and actually pass basic maths perhaps? The whole victim attitude just annoys, if they are a victim of society then their closest society is their own families. Brings it back down to being the people surely?

"The whole victim attitude" is what Learned Helplessness is about, and people don't choose their family so how is it their fault?

 

[tek-monkey]

Stop complaining then, when you clearly have no interest in the problems or trying to solve them.

I just think they should sort themselves out, arather than expecting someone else to do it.

You have clearly not been on JSA then. There is an agreement you have to stick to or your money gets stopped - and it involves looking for work, hence 'Jobseekers Allowance'.

Yes I have, wasn't fun so I got a job.

"The whole victim attitude" is what Learned Helplessness is about, and people don't choose their family so how is it their fault?

Its their families faults then, punish them. Nobody ever wants to fess up and admit they can't be arsed, its always somebody elses fault. If people had personal responsibility, if they took control of their situation rather than hoping things changed, if they put as much effort into bettering themselves as they do to blaming others, the world would be a much better place.

 

[Gramaisc]

wasn't fun

There were elements of fun when I did it. I once saw a bloke jump out of a builder's van at the door and run in to sign on, covered in sawdust, and nobody batted an eyelid. I twice found vacancy cards on the board using the pottery industry job title 'Sponger'. I showed them to staff members who didn't think it was as funny as I did. I saw an innocent young lad nearly dragged over the table having been asked what job experience he had answering, truthfully, 'Lifeguard'. I also found that they hardly spoke to me, and yet gave most others in the queue a real hard time. I began to worry that the others might think I was a stooge.

 

[db]

I saw an innocent young lad nearly dragged over the table having been asked what job experience he had answering, truthfully, 'Lifeguard'.

i don't understand - why was "lifeguard" such an offensive response? lol

 

[Gramaisc]

I got the impression that she thought that he was taking the piss by suggesting such an 'exotic' occupation, even though it was all that he had done in the three years since he'd left school. The general attitude was that everybody should work for Argos, and lifeguard experience was not likely to be of much use to her in placing him there. I was next in line, and I thought about suggesting that he could deliver the collapsible pools, together with a Health and Safety lecture - but, for once, I kept my mouth shut.

 

[Lunar Scorpion]

Stop complaining then, when you clearly have no interest in the problems or trying to solve them.

I just think they should sort themselves out, arather than expecting someone else to do it.

Has it ever occured to you that they might need some assistance in sorting themselves out? Otherwise they probably would have done it by now...

You have clearly not been on JSA then. There is an agreement you have to stick to or your money gets stopped - and it involves looking for work, hence 'Jobseekers Allowance'.

Yes I have, wasn't fun so I got a job.

I've had jobs, but they weren't fun so I ended up getting sacked, laid off or resigning at a point before I got sacked. That's why I do voluntary work - I enjoy it and it gives me a greater sense of self-worth than I have ever had being a wage slave.

"The whole victim attitude" is what Learned Helplessness is about, and people don't choose their family so how is it their fault?

Its their families faults then, punish them. Nobody ever wants to fess up and admit they can't be arsed, its always somebody elses fault. If people had personal responsibility, if they took control of their situation rather than hoping things changed, if they put as much effort into bettering themselves as they do to blaming others, the world would be a much better place.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't take personal responsibility, quite the opposite. I'm saying that sometimes people don't have the things they need to make informed choices, e.g. capital, knowledge, self-esteem, etc. which is where the rest of society comes in... Also, punishment doesn't generally work - it just makes people even more resentful and they either end up with mental health problems because they are fearful of punishment or they carry on displaying undesirable behaviours because they're the kind of people that don't like being told what to do and may see that as an invitation to do the opposite.

 

[Gramaisc]

It's the old carrot and stick scenario, but there can be confusion when they start hitting you with carrots...

 

[Lunar Scorpion]

It's the old carrot and stick scenario, but there can be confusion when they start hitting you with carrots...

PMSL...

 

[John Marwood]

There is no common good

 

[tek-monkey]

What you sayin 'bout common people?

 

[John Marwood]

i preferred http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1LE9s8RxYg

 

[Gramaisc]

Just watched Episode 2. I was surprised by the nine month sentence.

 

[Gramaisc]

Just watched Episode 3. I have to admit that the little David Brent type bloke would be capable of getting my back up.