Outdoor swimming pool (in your garden)

hop

Well-Known Forumite
I forgot to say @hop, I'm planning on converting to salt water next year to cover my "busy weeks", so will let you know how I get on ;)

Will make your life a lot simpler. Might be worth looking at getting a robotic cleaner as well.

Still haven't got round to installing the solar coils on the summer house roof having spent most of my spare time rectifying a drainage issue which meant digging up large parts of the garden. Although as a side effect of the drainage issue I now have a spare submersible pump which I could issue for the solar coils.
 

Carole

Well-Known Forumite
Thanks for the helpful replies.

@hop the pool is already there so there would be no installation costs, I was purely interested in the upkeep and maintenance. But your reply was helpful.

@wmrcomputers we would want to use the pool every day that the weather allowed and not just confine it to weekends.

It seems like the cost of the actual heating isn't too bad but the ongoing maintenance or potential future problems scares me a bit.

I think on the whole, that while it is a lovely idea I don't think it's for us.
 

Roland

Well-Known Forumite
The hot tub could be taking a lot of the electric if used regularly.

If you do buy this house don't forget your friends, cream tea and Pimms by the pool sounds very nice.

Forum meet at Carole's, I can't wait to see Mr Marwood in Speedo's!
 

Carole

Well-Known Forumite
If you do buy this house don't forget your friends, cream tea and Pimms by the pool sounds very nice.

Forum meet at Carole's, I can't wait to see Mr Marwood in Speedo's!

@Roland

Next time we do an afternoon tea with sandwiches, cakes and scones you shall be first on my invite list.

It won't be by a pool though....
 

Gramaisc

Forum O. G.
When this thread first started, I had very little recent* experience to draw on, in order to offer opinions and advice - other that just how easy it is to (very, very nearly) fall in one.**

Since then, I have got roped into a closer relationship with a pool and would offer various insights now.

Be prepared to be continuously "sorting something out". Every time you 'sort one out', another will reveal itself.

An example - The circulation system had multiple air leaks which made it difficult for the (automated) pump to start reliably. These leaks were systematically (?) remedied, but eventually, the real source of the majority of the problem (probably) was revealed to be the seals at each end of the heat exchanger for the water heating system. When the pool 'went dormant' for the winter the opportunity was taken to open it up and sort the seals out. I had hoped that they might just be cleaned up and replaced in a better manner - one of the couplings was clearly cross-threaded and the other was difficult to tighten fully, due to access issues. Opening it up revealed that the cross-threaded seal was a bit knackered as a result and the seal at the other end just wasn't there at all - it had been 'replaced' by a handful of Boss White and some hope, which had faded a bit...

"Never mind", I thought, "let's just get some new seals and it should be OK" The fittings seemed alright, even the cross-threaded one went back together with no problem, when straightened up.

Many pool suppliers have claimed to have the seals, but when challenged to actually supply them, none did. The manufacturers, in Germany, were just proper weird. The bloke there was very unwilling to supply any spares and recommended that I replaced the fittings - they are perfectly OK and are glued on - replacing them would probably make things worse - all it needs is new seals. He suggested that I contact their UK agent for the seals - they weren't the slightest bit interested. Some other places that I tried still have the seals on offer on their websites, weeks after they have admitted to me that they don't have any or any intention of ever supplying them.

I have one place now offering me the seals at a ludicrous price.

The seals are "specials", not used anywhere else - I initially expected to maybe even get them from Plumbits or GPT on Marston Road, but no.

They are essentially a flat gasket, but with a semi-circular rib running round one face, to locate in a groove in the fitting and stop the seal from being sucked inwards when the pump isn't running - there being about 3psi of 'negative' pressure in those circumstances. I suspect that a plain flat gasket would be OK, but the 'real' seal would be better, I suppose.

Anyway, measuring the groove in the fitting has revealed that it seems to be very close to a standard o-ring groove so I have ordered a couple of o-rings and we'll see what happens. This will also allow the fittings to have an extra turn of thread engaged, which won't go amiss.

In general, I would say - be prepared to deal with people who don't really know any more than you do, but do know that there's money to be had..


*I was last in a swimming pool in 1967, in a canoe.

**There are moves in Ireland to make it compulsory for this government minister to perform all future swimming pool opening ceremonies.


Within thirty minutes of him falling in, some wag had put warning tape around the ornamental pool in front of the government buildings in Dublin.
 

Cue

Well-Known Forumite
I wonder, did you buy the house @Carole? And if so how is the pool?

Realistically if you do heat it a lot, electric heaters are next to useless and an excellent way to burn your cash. We were looking into heaters for our steel-frame this year, they barely heat anything and are 2-3kw so cost 30p+ per hour to run, needing several hours to even make a degree of difference.

You can buy solar heaters that are basically big domes with coiled piping in, they focus the heat onto the pipes as it circulates. About £100 a dome.

If you’re really inventive, you can get a heat pump that is basically the outdoor unit of an aircon system, which will pull the heat out of the air and give it to the circulating water. Not cheap though.

If you’re REALLY inventive and want to kill two birds, you could get a mini split AC installed and a heat exchanger can go on the return pipe to take the heat of inside and put it into your pool.
 

Gramaisc

Forum O. G.
When this thread first started, I had very little recent* experience to draw on, in order to offer opinions and advice - other that just how easy it is to (very, very nearly) fall in one.**

Since then, I have got roped into a closer relationship with a pool and would offer various insights now.

Be prepared to be continuously "sorting something out". Every time you 'sort one out', another will reveal itself.

An example - The circulation system had multiple air leaks which made it difficult for the (automated) pump to start reliably. These leaks were systematically (?) remedied, but eventually, the real source of the majority of the problem (probably) was revealed to be the seals at each end of the heat exchanger for the water heating system. When the pool 'went dormant' for the winter the opportunity was taken to open it up and sort the seals out. I had hoped that they might just be cleaned up and replaced in a better manner - one of the couplings was clearly cross-threaded and the other was difficult to tighten fully, due to access issues. Opening it up revealed that the cross-threaded seal was a bit knackered as a result and the seal at the other end just wasn't there at all - it had been 'replaced' by a handful of Boss White and some hope, which had faded a bit...

"Never mind", I thought, "let's just get some new seals and it should be OK" The fittings seemed alright, even the cross-threaded one went back together with no problem, when straightened up.

Many pool suppliers have claimed to have the seals, but when challenged to actually supply them, none did. The manufacturers, in Germany, were just proper weird. The bloke there was very unwilling to supply any spares and recommended that I replaced the fittings - they are perfectly OK and are glued on - replacing them would probably make things worse - all it needs is new seals. He suggested that I contact their UK agent for the seals - they weren't the slightest bit interested. Some other places that I tried still have the seals on offer on their websites, weeks after they have admitted to me that they don't have any or any intention of ever supplying them.

I have one place now offering me the seals at a ludicrous price.

The seals are "specials", not used anywhere else - I initially expected to maybe even get them from Plumbits or GPT on Marston Road, but no.

They are essentially a flat gasket, but with a semi-circular rib running round one face, to locate in a groove in the fitting and stop the seal from being sucked inwards when the pump isn't running - there being about 3psi of 'negative' pressure in those circumstances. I suspect that a plain flat gasket would be OK, but the 'real' seal would be better, I suppose.

Anyway, measuring the groove in the fitting has revealed that it seems to be very close to a standard o-ring groove so I have ordered a couple of o-rings and we'll see what happens. This will also allow the fittings to have an extra turn of thread engaged, which won't go amiss.

In general, I would say - be prepared to deal with people who don't really know any more than you do, but do know that there's money to be had..


*I was last in a swimming pool in 1967, in a canoe.

**There are moves in Ireland to make it compulsory for this government minister to perform all future swimming pool opening ceremonies.


Within thirty minutes of him falling in, some wag had put warning tape around the ornamental pool in front of the government buildings in Dublin.
Right, well, I obtained two o-rings and set about fitting them, this involved cleaning away the 'sealant' that wasn't sealing one end and generally tidying up the faces and the threads of the couplings.

Access to the 'far end' was difficult, so I ended up putting the one existing seal in there and tightening it up, as persuading the o-ring into the groove was rather difficult - I would expect it to be OK, though.

The 'good' end did have its new o-ring fitted but, years of being cross-threaded meant that the fitting wouldn't tighten up properly, as it needed to pull the slightly misaligned pipework straight - and everything was glued up. As it tightened up, it would reach a point where it jumped a thread on one side.

I decided to try a 'trick', but didn't have the necessary material with me at the time. By filling the thread with PTFE tape, I could force it to stay centralised and tighten up properly without being able to 'jump' to a cross-threaded situation.

This was achieved today.

Both ends should be OK now, both have a seal in and both are straight and tight - but we won't really know until the system is full of water again.

If it still leaks then, the heater can be removed from the system without disturbing anything else and it can all be cleaned up batter and the second o-ring inserted in the groove - but, it's probably best to try this set-up first.

With both ends now pulled straight, we might even get a bit of creep from the plastic parts over time that will reduce this problem in the future.
 

Gramaisc

Forum O. G.
As always, I can be relied on to lower the tone of anything.
I read this
as G strings.
Serves me right for not putting my glasses on.
Probably best not to, in case you were right...

...might put your eye out...



Right - we have dewintered the pool - on Tuesday - and, after a little difficulty getting the pump to self purge, it has been fully reliable on automatic starts for the last three days, starting to pump at full flow in about two minutes.

The heat exchanger now seems to have no leaks inwards or outwards. The O-ring 'conversion' seems to have been a success.

There is a very slight haze in the water, but a few days of filtering will shift that, I hope.

The current 'problem' is apple blossom, but the skimmer deals with that in a few minutes.

The heat exchanger seems to be putting about a degree every three hours into the water.
 

Cue

Well-Known Forumite
Probably best not to, in case you were right...

...might put your eye out...



Right - we have dewintered the pool - on Tuesday - and, after a little difficulty getting the pump to self purge, it has been fully reliable on automatic starts for the last three days, starting to pump at full flow in about two minutes.

The heat exchanger now seems to have no leaks inwards or outwards. The O-ring 'conversion' seems to have been a success.

There is a very slight haze in the water, but a few days of filtering will shift that, I hope.

The current 'problem' is apple blossom, but the skimmer deals with that in a few minutes.

The heat exchanger seems to be putting about a degree every three hours into the water.

I’m quite jealous of the heat exchanger, they’re crazy efficient if the 3.6 ratio our AC units do is anything to go by. I just can’t justify the cost as we only have a small pool. Been thinking of getting one of those solar mats and hanging it off the back fence where it’ll basically get sun all day as it’s south facing... provided it can hold itself up and the filter can send it that high of course.
 

Gramaisc

Forum O. G.
This pool has a virtually black floating bubble cover now - quite efficient insulation and a reasonable bit of solar input, too, I suspect.

It previously had a tensioned 'canvas' cover, about a foot above the water level. Much better at keeping airborne debris out, but not really viable to keep on when the pool was in regular use over the summer months. Two people and about half an hour to fit or remove. The new cover is a one-man operation and takes about a minute, at the very most.

The old cover also cost a lot of heat loss, I suspect. Warm water would evaporate, condense on the underside and then drip back in - cold - especially at night.

One slightly negative effect of the new dark cover is that it dries very quickly and debris on it is blown to the sides where it can then enter the pool and sink. Not a huge issue, as it's going to be vacced anyway, but it does add a bit to the quantity of material to be removed.

Been thinking of getting one of those solar mats and hanging it off the back fence where it’ll basically get sun all day as it’s south facing... provided it can hold itself up and the filter can send it that high of course.
If your pool is open, then just putting black plastic sheeting at the bottom, where the sunshine will impinge on it had a surprisingly large effect on a large, unheated inflatable paddling pool that 'my' students had once.

it appears to be obligatory for pools to be blue, when black would be better for outdoor ones, energy conservation-wise.
 

Cue

Well-Known Forumite
This pool has a virtually black floating bubble cover now - quite efficient insulation and a reasonable bit of solar input, too, I suspect.

It previously had a tensioned 'canvas' cover, about a foot above the water level. Much better at keeping airborne debris out, but not really viable to keep on when the pool was in regular use over the summer months. Two people and about half an hour to fit or remove. The new cover is a one-man operation and takes about a minute, at the very most.

The old cover also cost a lot of heat loss, I suspect. Warm water would evaporate, condense on the underside and then drip back in - cold - especially at night.

One slightly negative effect of the new dark cover is that it dries very quickly and debris on it is blown to the sides where it can then enter the pool and sink. Not a huge issue, as it's going to be vacced anyway, but it does add a bit to the quantity of material to be removed.


If your pool is open, then just putting black plastic sheeting at the bottom, where the sunshine will impinge on it had a surprisingly large effect on a large, unheated inflatable paddling pool that 'my' students had once.

it appears to be obligatory for pools to be blue, when black would be better for outdoor ones, energy conservation-wise.

If I could work out a good way to secure it to the bottom (letting it just sit will probably result in it floating at some point) I’d give it a go for sure.

And yeah, solar covers really do let a lot of crap into the pool unfortunately. The neighbours behind like to grow a large bush up against our party fence which sheds all sorts into our pool area which doesn’t help... plus next door’s kittens might get a little too curious about the pool and I’m not sure they can swim
 

Gramaisc

Forum O. G.
The floating cover will support a good weight. The pigeons stand on it to drink from the gap at the edge.

The black sheets just need a very slight weight to keep them submerged. Maybe heat-seal a bit of wire around the edges?

The students used stones, but their pool was only about 18" deep, so they could be placed and retrieved by hand.
 
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