Save Cannock Chase

[Withnail]

2013...

Dude, I think we may have very different ideas about what constitutes 'the past' ...

There are two very different things going on here though. Because I don' t think anyone is suggesting there is no place for cattle being used for land management, but there is also a reasonable objection to the restrictions to access that would be attendant to fencing them in if it meant that we would be ipso facto fenced out.

It's not like cattle are historically, like properly historically, part of creating the landscape that currently exists, and it's not like there isn't a grazing population up there already that was.

I'm never likely to be convinced that any sort of restriction of access to the Chase is going to be anything other than a step backwards.

So I signed the petition.

 

[The Hawk]

Dude, I think we may have very different ideas about what constitutes 'the past' ...

There are two very different things going on here though. Because I don' t think anyone is suggesting there is no place for cattle being used for land management, but there is also a reasonable objection to the restrictions to access that would be attendant to fencing them in if it meant that we would be ipso facto fenced out.

It's not like cattle are historically, like properly historically, part of creating the landscape that currently exists, and it's not like there isn't a grazing population up there already that was.

I'm never likely to be convinced that any sort of restriction of access to the Chase is going to be anything other than a step backwards.

So I signed the petition.

Cattle have grazed Cannock Chase for at least 4,000 years, at times it was quite intensive, especially between the 16th and 20th centuries; however, that was for 'commercial' purposes. The use of cattle (and horses and sheep), as part of land management, is a much more recent thing.

I do share your concerns that the current proposals could introduce unnecessary fencing, especially when it involves the Council but, in all honesty, I see nothing wrong in the proposals as stated.

 

[Noah]

Probably originally oak/pine/birch/etc woodland modified by human activities from at least 4000BC, and probably 7000BC. By the medieval period much coppiced. Most of the woodland cut down for fuel for furnaces by greedy industrialists in the very early 17th century creating the artificial heathland which was used for grazing. During the First World War large areas were planted with conifers, mostly non-native, to ensure a future supply of pit props.

 

[Withnail]

I'm struggling to find sources but I'm certain that in the C.16 bracken ash for clothes washing - bucking with lye - was also a relatively big industry.

Which is all very interesting.

Perhaps the better question would be - when was it, historically, fenced off? I dare say you'd better not have a dog with you if you were there c.1075 but you'd still get in.

Are we all just happy to fence it entirely so that the cows don't escape?

Are we just going to fence the best bits of it without any protest whatsoever because, you know, shut up it's conservation?

Because f**k that.

 

[The Hawk]

I'm struggling to find sources but I'm certain that in the C.16 bracken ash for clothes washing - bucking with lye - was also a relatively big industry.

Which is all very interesting.

Perhaps the better question would be - when was it, historically, fenced off? I dare say you'd better not have a dog with you if you were there c.1075 but you'd still get in.

Are we all just happy to fence it entirely so that the cows don't escape?

Are we just going to fence the best bits of it without any protest whatsoever because, you know, shut up it's conservation?

Because f**k that.

Again, Doxey Marshes is completely fenced off and compartmentalised. Doxey Marshes has a number of problems, but I don't see 'oppressive' fencing as one of them.

 

[Withnail]

One thing to be remembered about the Chase is that it is now a destination for MTB riders, a demographic that brings a lot of economic clout to the argument. Fencing and gates might not be much of an inconvenience to those on two feet, but they can make a huge difference to those on two wheels.

It all rather depends on the wheres and hows of it, to be sure, but i'm afraid i have little confidence that SCC will enact this without cocking the whole thing up in some unutterable fashion.

 

[Withnail]

Interesting points made by both yourself and The Hawk. Has anybody got pictures of the fencing already installed?

Virtually invisible, what?

 

[Noah]

Have seen someone on a bike stop, get of his bike, throw the bike over the fence, climb over the fence, then continue his ride

 

[PeterD]

My preferred option would be hurtle past me, not see the fence, I bid them good day as they apply a Mr bump sticking plaster to their knee.

 

[The Hawk]

Maybe some cattle guard rollers would help:

 

[Withnail]

Maybe some cattle guard rollers would help:
View attachment 6810

Well that is, indeed, erm, very pretty.