1JKz
Well-Known Forumite
You saw 'You feel this strongly about animal welfare, honestly buddy, the best thing to do then, is go vegan.' as aggressive?
Hang about Ent, you were the one who had said that i probably didn't read the article.
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That vegan thread.
- Thread starter 1JKz
- Start date
You saw 'You feel this strongly about animal welfare, honestly buddy, the best thing to do then, is go vegan.' as aggressive?
Hang about Ent, you were the one who had said that i probably didn't read the article.
Mikinton
Well-Known Forumite
Wanna bet?
Entropy
Well-Known Forumite
Does that mean we get to put you on the naughty step for throwing a strop? no thanks, I have nothing to hide from anyone.
I never said anything about your choice to be vegan as aggressive, but perhaps the way you go about it can be, or be taken as rather aggressive. Especially if you are challenged by something that doesn't meet your ideals. which is fine, you're entitled to that.
Your notion that just because I am NOT a vegan, nor do I want to be, that I cannot have some kind of empathy towards animals and their welfare? How absolutely narrow minded of you?
Your only solution to this is as you say to become vegan....no thanks. I have had a vegetarian diet, and on some days an almost vegan diet, and I am open to trying new things, which is why I do dip into this thread from time to time. Some of the food suggestions are actually quite nice.
Anyways.......back on topic....
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1JKz
Well-Known Forumite
Life is not ours to create or to take
We try to play God, for petty sakes
We've re-written the meaning of countless words
Such as 'suffering' and 'science', to suit ourselves.
We take torture and cruelty to the extreme
But only to the creatures that cannot be seen
Those creatures not heard, those who can't scream
We commit acts and deeds BEYOND obscene
We view taking life as an everyday thing
Like to play, to laugh, to cry or to sing
We teach our children that killing is ok
As long as the victim has nothing to say!
We teach our kids that there's always an excuse
For any form we choose, of animal abuse
We teach that eating animals is the only way
We need our protein at the end of the day!
Well maybe there REALLY is NEVER a reason
To take of a life, not even in season
Maybe our importance is blown out of proportion
Because animals, like us, are capable of emotion
That they have the right, just as much as we
To never be tortured, to be 'allowed' to be free
To feel the sun on their backs and smell the clean air
Maybe one day, more people will care...
There's Always An Excuse by Bernie Jones
We try to play God, for petty sakes
We've re-written the meaning of countless words
Such as 'suffering' and 'science', to suit ourselves.
We take torture and cruelty to the extreme
But only to the creatures that cannot be seen
Those creatures not heard, those who can't scream
We commit acts and deeds BEYOND obscene
We view taking life as an everyday thing
Like to play, to laugh, to cry or to sing
We teach our children that killing is ok
As long as the victim has nothing to say!
We teach our kids that there's always an excuse
For any form we choose, of animal abuse
We teach that eating animals is the only way
We need our protein at the end of the day!
Well maybe there REALLY is NEVER a reason
To take of a life, not even in season
Maybe our importance is blown out of proportion
Because animals, like us, are capable of emotion
That they have the right, just as much as we
To never be tortured, to be 'allowed' to be free
To feel the sun on their backs and smell the clean air
Maybe one day, more people will care...
There's Always An Excuse by Bernie Jones
Withnail
Well-Known Forumite
Truly AWFUL poetry aside, and tbf there isn;t really any excuse for that, it's almost murder in and of itself, there is something to be said for the argument that you cannot place each argument aside.
There is a strain of thought that says exactly that - you cannot express any sympathy for one species, ie a fennec fox, if you are willing to eat another, ie an ickle lamb.
It's called Speciesism. Look it up if you want to either find expression or depression in your life.
It is yet another area where there can be no common ground.
Which is exactly what the world needs now more than ever - entrenched positions from which we can not retrieve any kind of common ground of understanding.
There is a strain of thought that says exactly that - you cannot express any sympathy for one species, ie a fennec fox, if you are willing to eat another, ie an ickle lamb.
It's called Speciesism. Look it up if you want to either find expression or depression in your life.
It is yet another area where there can be no common ground.
Which is exactly what the world needs now more than ever - entrenched positions from which we can not retrieve any kind of common ground of understanding.
tek-monkey
wanna see my snake?
So you can't kill bugs and pretend you care about rabbits?
Frontal
Well-Known Forumite
I think the point is - every vegan I know feeds their pet the foods they need - my Mrs spends more on high quality meaty cat food than on people food I swear.
Highlighting one person malnourished an animal and holding her up as an example of bad veganism ..... when I can hold up quite a significant number more examples of malnourished animals owned by non-vegans and draw disparaging parallels.
Entropy
Well-Known Forumite
Each side of the debate has good and bad points.....some people spend more on their pets than they do themselves, and others neglect.
I think I'll let this one lay now....as @Withnail states, there is no real common ground on this except the fact that it doesn't matter whether you are vegan or not, there is this absolute love and devotion to the welfare and health of the pet / animal you keep in you home. They are as much a part of you family as any relative is.
I think I'll let this one lay now....as @Withnail states, there is no real common ground on this except the fact that it doesn't matter whether you are vegan or not, there is this absolute love and devotion to the welfare and health of the pet / animal you keep in you home. They are as much a part of you family as any relative is.
1JKz
Well-Known Forumite
Life is not ours to create or to take
We try to play God, for petty sakes
We've re-written the meaning of countless words
Such as 'suffering' and 'science', to suit ourselves.
We take torture and cruelty to the extreme
But only to the creatures that cannot be seen
Those creatures not heard, those who can't scream
We commit acts and deeds BEYOND obscene
We view taking life as an everyday thing
Like to play, to laugh, to cry or to sing
We teach our children that killing is ok
As long as the victim has nothing to say!
We teach our kids that there's always an excuse
For any form we choose, of animal abuse
We teach that eating animals is the only way
We need our protein at the end of the day!
Well maybe there REALLY is NEVER a reason
To take of a life, not even in season
Maybe our importance is blown out of proportion
Because animals, like us, are capable of emotion
That they have the right, just as much as we
To never be tortured, to be 'allowed' to be free
To feel the sun on their backs and smell the clean air
Maybe one day, more people will care...
There's Always An Excuse by Bernie Jones
We try to play God, for petty sakes
We've re-written the meaning of countless words
Such as 'suffering' and 'science', to suit ourselves.
We take torture and cruelty to the extreme
But only to the creatures that cannot be seen
Those creatures not heard, those who can't scream
We commit acts and deeds BEYOND obscene
We view taking life as an everyday thing
Like to play, to laugh, to cry or to sing
We teach our children that killing is ok
As long as the victim has nothing to say!
We teach our kids that there's always an excuse
For any form we choose, of animal abuse
We teach that eating animals is the only way
We need our protein at the end of the day!
Well maybe there REALLY is NEVER a reason
To take of a life, not even in season
Maybe our importance is blown out of proportion
Because animals, like us, are capable of emotion
That they have the right, just as much as we
To never be tortured, to be 'allowed' to be free
To feel the sun on their backs and smell the clean air
Maybe one day, more people will care...
There's Always An Excuse by Bernie Jones
Mikinton
Well-Known Forumite
Thinking back to previous discussions with Henryscat, I got the impression that the keyword was "sentience". So while eating beef, lamb and chicken is definitely out, eating locusts and mealworms is fine.
ETA You can always tell crap poetry by the hoops the writer jumps through to make every line rhyme. Doggerel, like most raps.
1JKz
Well-Known Forumite
You've said you are letting this one lay, but i've a question.
I'm interested to hear your opinion is all.
How about those animals that are kept on your* land but not in your home?
*your being a person what owns an animal/animals that aren't kept indoors.
1JKz
Well-Known Forumite
I've emailed Bernie.
tek-monkey
wanna see my snake?
What about animals that live on your land that you don't choose to keep?
1JKz
Well-Known Forumite
1JKz
Well-Known Forumite
Nah not really, only kidding.
Treat them as i would a pet, or to echo what Ent said #549 and use it for my own opinion and point; treat them more like part of the family, a relative if you must, treat them with less than mild contempt but do them no harm.
We've all got those family member types right? Turn up unannounced, you may feed them give them a drink, some won't even ask how you are and some are always want want want, probably use your toilet and then f-off, but you'd never not be without them.
...on the whole.
Treat them as i would a pet, or to echo what Ent said #549 and use it for my own opinion and point; treat them more like part of the family, a relative if you must, treat them with less than mild contempt but do them no harm.
We've all got those family member types right? Turn up unannounced, you may feed them give them a drink, some won't even ask how you are and some are always want want want, probably use your toilet and then f-off, but you'd never not be without them.
...on the whole.
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Entropy
Well-Known Forumite
Errr......I don't own any animals or have that live out side, so I cannot speak for those that do I'm guessing you are referring to a farmer or someone who is trained in animal husbandry?....bit of a redundant question to ask me really?
Any animals / insect / bees / moths / spiders and yes...even wasps, I treat with the same respect I would any other creature...Some would want to kill on sight, I take the stance of capture and re-release (bees / wasps / spiders etc.).
1JKz
Well-Known Forumite
OK.
Entropy
Well-Known Forumite
Husbandry? What about Wifery? Midwifery?
But of course this too....non discriminatory here......
