Gramaisc
Forum O. G.
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Coronavirus.
- Thread starter Tilly
- Start date
Thehooperman
Well-Known Forumite
A pair of pr*#ks might be a little more succinctI.... I can't think of a more perfectly succinct summary of the current state of affairs.
gilbert grape
Well-Known Forumite
Have you seen what's going on in Shanghai? Absolute madness. Control, manipulation, violence in some cases, killing pets and massive restrictions.
Even if a percentage of the videos and news that have come out are true, it's beyond belief for containing a virus. If other countries try to use such measures I can see serious unrest, but I believe that would be the intent of some governments.
I've seen people beaten for non mask wearing, pets that belong to people who were under suspicion of having covid, thrown into bags ready for destroying and, where people dare to speak out against measures, riot police have been used.
If you need links, just type Shanghai into twitter and there's a sea of videos and stories. I truly hope other nations don't follow suit as this has nothing to do with caring for people.
Even if a percentage of the videos and news that have come out are true, it's beyond belief for containing a virus. If other countries try to use such measures I can see serious unrest, but I believe that would be the intent of some governments.
I've seen people beaten for non mask wearing, pets that belong to people who were under suspicion of having covid, thrown into bags ready for destroying and, where people dare to speak out against measures, riot police have been used.
If you need links, just type Shanghai into twitter and there's a sea of videos and stories. I truly hope other nations don't follow suit as this has nothing to do with caring for people.
Theresa Green
Well-Known Forumite
China is a brutal and dangerous regime, yes we know that
So what's your point?
Other than distraction
SketchyMagpie
Well-Known Forumite
China is essentially a dictatorship with a zero covid policy so there's no real logic in making any kind of comparison with other countries that aren't (I presume that's why it's been brought up here, as a warning against "what can happen" with strict covid laws?). It is really shocking and disturbing to hear the authoritarian nature of what is happening there right now but the human rights abuse there did not begin with nor is it limited to covid policies.
On the other hand, my cousin lives in China and for probably 90% of the time we were all in lockdowns and abiding by restrictions over the last 2 years, she was living life completely as normal there because they had no community transmission and no impact on health services or the economy etc which I would have thought is more in line with what anti-lockdown folk would have wanted to see here...?
Fast lockdowns work and don't have to last longer than a few weeks, our problem is that we wait too long to press the button.
Shanghai's problem is they're hitting the button with a sledgehammer (to put it mildly).
On the other hand, my cousin lives in China and for probably 90% of the time we were all in lockdowns and abiding by restrictions over the last 2 years, she was living life completely as normal there because they had no community transmission and no impact on health services or the economy etc which I would have thought is more in line with what anti-lockdown folk would have wanted to see here...?
Fast lockdowns work and don't have to last longer than a few weeks, our problem is that we wait too long to press the button.
Shanghai's problem is they're hitting the button with a sledgehammer (to put it mildly).
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tek-monkey
wanna see my snake?
Yup. We're a small island FFS, if we'd been quick to act we could have just cut off travel and lived normally here. Instead we waited til it was everywhere, then locked down but let travel continue shipping in reinfections undoing the lockdowns! Its like our entire policy was really to infect everyone, chasing a herd immunity we now know is impossible anyway, but pretending the whole time like thats not what we were doing. I think we probably damaged our country more than most due to our inaction.
BobClay
Well-Known Forumite
It's bit like imagining Blow Job Johnson sitting in a deep nuclear bunker somewhere several weeks after the planet has been wasted by a nuclear holocaust and pressing the big red button on his desk and shouting: "Why doesn't it work ? Why doesn't it work ?" 
(He follows that up with: "I know, let's have a party !!"
)
(He follows that up with: "I know, let's have a party !!"
)
gilbert grape
Well-Known Forumite
My point being, our shower will follow even if it's a watered down version and even more of our freedom will be reduced and not given back.
If the high count of cases is correct and the high count of vaxed people is correct, surely our nation's immunity should be on the rise. If not, there must be something wrong in what we are being told.
A lot of the nation have still not had it and I'm sure many of those have behaved in a similar manner.
If the high count of cases is correct and the high count of vaxed people is correct, surely our nation's immunity should be on the rise. If not, there must be something wrong in what we are being told.
A lot of the nation have still not had it and I'm sure many of those have behaved in a similar manner.
SketchyMagpie
Well-Known Forumite
The indicator that our immunity is greater than it was is the fact that far less people are dying than would have been during the January 2021 lockdown, for example. Without that immunity from vaccines, we'd probably be into thousands of daily deaths by now, if you compare the survival right from then vs now.
However those of us who were last vaccinated around December will now be experiencing a drop-off in protection (which is a natural thing with any antibodies) so this is probably contributing to the high infection levels, alongside the fact that antibodies gained from infection offer less protection than the vaccine.
You say "a lot of the nation have still not had it" but a week or two ago the prevalence level was predicted to be at 1 in 15 people which is an extremely high rate of infection. I can certainly vouch for it seeming to be about more because I had 7 family members at once (from different households) come down with it.
But its worth remembering that the vaccines prevent against serious illness when you get infected, they're not designed to prevent infection (though in some cases they do).
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tek-monkey
wanna see my snake?
Herd immunity isn't a thing, it's something you can catch multiple times there is no immunity. At best you have those that had it recently less likely to have it again yet, but what about everyone they are in contact with?
Also I'm not sure why you think the vaccine gives you immunity when it's well known it just lessens the damage?
EDIT TO CLARIFY: When I say 'just' you can look at the death rates, unvaxxed are much worse off, but you have to remember a lot of people have not recovered from this even though they survived. What they call long covid is hard to determine in my eyes, is there a scientific description/methodology to test?
SketchyMagpie
Well-Known Forumite
The outbreak began in China so of course they had the first lockdown. That lockdown successfully prevented the spread of the virus so other countries followed, it's not complicated. Our scientific advisors were pushing for lockdown for weeks before it happened and we already know that the decision to delay cost thousands of lives.
We have literally *zero* covid restrictions in place right now.
Nothing.
Nada.
I never said something "could never happen here", I said it made no sense to compare their situation to ours. They could not be more opposite.
Apples, meet oranges.
Mudgie
Well-Known Forumite
But as there's a baby born approximately every minute the risk of these island being depopulated isn't too great !.
Gramaisc
Forum O. G.
If it's depopulation that we're trying to avoid, we could save a lot of money and effort on things like speeding and drink driving enforcement, health and safety in general, plus a good few general health measures.
The Hawk
Well-Known Forumite
I think most people want to avoid being one of the depopulated, at least for some time anyway.
tek-monkey
wanna see my snake?
Pretty sure it's standard procedure, it was even done for spanish flu 100 years previously. Not country wide but many cities imposed bans on public meeting places and they found that they were hit less drastically as a result. Lockdowns are not just for covid, and didn't we ban travel during SARS?
Gramaisc
Forum O. G.
Eyam had a go at a fair lockdown and travel ban for the Plague in 1665-66.
'Quarantine', as a term, originates in the practice of not letting people off ships, suspected to have disease onboard, for fourteen days.
SARS is a disease of a coronavirus origin, indeed SARS-Cov-2 is one of the 'official' terms for Covid-19.
It was really the responses of the Chinese and Canadians that stopped SARS becoming a global disease.
I have heard it said that SARS - Severe Acute Respiratory Disorder - had no need for both 'Severe' and 'Acute', but SRS didn't trip off the the tongue and ARS was not really felt 'suitable'.
There was, and probably still is, a theory that SARS was created to have a greater lethality to oriental people and was made from a combination of measles and mumps. This was all before I was 'netted up', so I missed that until now.
gilbert grape
Well-Known Forumite
A look into where we are heading and if you think this is all for our good, I fear for you!
Power where it’s not needed, the wring sort of consistency and loads of rules to manipulate us even more.
www.consilium.europa.eu
Power where it’s not needed, the wring sort of consistency and loads of rules to manipulate us even more.
An international treaty on pandemic prevention and preparedness
An international treaty on pandemics prevention and preparedness would enable countries around the world to be more resilient to future pandemics such as COVID-19..