Talk to me about solar panels.

Cue

Well-Known Forumite
but if kicked off the tariff (no EV) then the batteries on their own are pointless too
The usage of charging the batteries would be well within normal usage for an EV to be fair. The main issue will be whether they start asking for proof though I suppose.

They have a tariff for batteries but I think you need solar too unfortunately
 

tek-monkey

wanna see my snake?
4.260 kW Total Solar Power
12 x 355 Watt Panels (CS3L-355MS
Has your solar installer not quoted you?

It'd a real shame such a new system didn't raise at least the idea of adding batteries later, a hybrid inverter doesn't cost that much more.
 

tek-monkey

wanna see my snake?
The usage of charging the batteries would be well within normal usage for an EV to be fair. The main issue will be whether they start asking for proof though I suppose.

They have a tariff for batteries but I think you need solar too unfortunately
Bulb don't require an ev, but rumour is they are being bought out by octopus.
 

Manorboy

Well-Known Forumite
Has your solar installer not quoted you?

It'd a real shame such a new system didn't raise at least the idea of adding batteries later, a hybrid inverter doesn't cost that much more.
Hi
Thank you for your help so far, when I first inquired regarding a battery the company who supplied the panels said a battery was not needed and a waste of money, since accepting the quote I asked someone else who had solar panels and they said it was good to have one. When the panels were fitted I askEd the company about a battery, they said that they had no stock and to wait until next year when they were cheaper.
 

tek-monkey

wanna see my snake?
Hi
Thank you for your help so far, when I first inquired regarding a battery the company who supplied the panels said a battery was not needed and a waste of money, since accepting the quote I asked someone else who had solar panels and they said it was good to have one. When the panels were fitted I askEd the company about a battery, they said that they had no stock and to wait until next year when they were cheaper.
You'd think if they had any inclination to fit batteries they'd have used the right inverter. Don't get me wrong, batteries are very highly priced right now, but that seems wrong.
 

tek-monkey

wanna see my snake?
Torn on advice here. An AC coupled system would mean not touching the current setup, would separate out the two functions and mean they work independently, but would also limit you to the current inverter total for both usage and charge. This means if you're using 1kw then only 2.6kW max is available for charging, but it's not a huge issue. Would mean a G99 application prior to install but should be simple enough and any spark can do the job.

Alternatively you replace your almost new inverter with a hybrid and hang batteries off that, means the batteries charge off DC so can use the full 3.6 max on the home and no G99 so can just do it and tell the power company later, but would need a real solar installer.
 

Manorboy

Well-Known Forumite
Which would be the best way if I wanted a 5.8kw battery, also is there a market for secondhand inverters if my best option was to change to a hybrid?
 

Withnail

Well-Known Forumite
I've been unable to locate it, but there was an article in The Guardian that looked at the merits of various installations, and the viability thereof, what must have been a few months ago now.

One of the points raised re batteries was that the effective 'life' of the battery vs the cost of them meant that it was pretty on the edge as to whether they were worth it.

You could end up spending thousands on a system that conks out way before it pays you back, so i wouldn't worry too much about it if it is otherwise doing the do.
 

tek-monkey

wanna see my snake?
I've been unable to locate it, but there was an article in The Guardian that looked at the merits of various installations, and the viability thereof, what must have been a few months ago now.

One of the points raised re batteries was that the effective 'life' of the battery vs the cost of them meant that it was pretty on the edge as to whether they were worth it.

You could end up spending thousands on a system that conks out way before it pays you back, so i wouldn't worry too much about it if it is otherwise doing the do.
My (very vague) calculations were...

A battery has a 10 year warranty and is rated to still be at 80% after 6000 cycles or 10 years, for ease we'll say 90% at 5000 for the whole duration.
The average cost of a fully installed battery is $500/kWh. (I say $ but only as I have no quid symbol on this keyboard!)
Therefore a 10kWh battery costs 5k and does 5,000 cycles, so a quid per cycle
Each cycle is 9kWh, so 11p per kW cycle
So basically your battery, if assumed to be junk at 10 years, costs 11p per kwH you use from it.

Next you need to look at how it's charged, it's free if from solar, but you'd get the SEG if you didn't use it to charge. That used to be a measly 4p, you're much better keeping it in a battery til needed as it 'costs' you 15p per kW saving roughly 1/2 (battery plus lost SEG).
Octopus now offer 15p, that changes things a bit as each unit stored now costs you 26p, while it's still better than the 34p you pay for incoming energy it means you only save 8p per kWh (roughly 1/4).

All this changes drastically if you have a night time 7.5p tariff of course, as then you can top up all winter for 18.5p (11p battery cost plus 7.5p tariff) meaning you can keep the savings going even without solar generation.

My view going in was the system must pay itself back within the warranty period, even though it's expected life is much longer.
 

Lucy

Well-Known Forumite
We haven't had a call back from Green Logic after they came to quote last Wednesday...
 

The Hawk

Well-Known Forumite
My (very vague) calculations were...

A battery has a 10 year warranty and is rated to still be at 80% after 6000 cycles or 10 years, for ease we'll say 90% at 5000 for the whole duration.
The average cost of a fully installed battery is $500/kWh. (I say $ but only as I have no quid symbol on this keyboard!)
Therefore a 10kWh battery costs 5k and does 5,000 cycles, so a quid per cycle
Each cycle is 9kWh, so 11p per kW cycle
So basically your battery, if assumed to be junk at 10 years, costs 11p per kwH you use from it.

Next you need to look at how it's charged, it's free if from solar, but you'd get the SEG if you didn't use it to charge. That used to be a measly 4p, you're much better keeping it in a battery til needed as it 'costs' you 15p per kW saving roughly 1/2 (battery plus lost SEG).
Octopus now offer 15p, that changes things a bit as each unit stored now costs you 26p, while it's still better than the 34p you pay for incoming energy it means you only save 8p per kWh (roughly 1/4).

All this changes drastically if you have a night time 7.5p tariff of course, as then you can top up all winter for 18.5p (11p battery cost plus 7.5p tariff) meaning you can keep the savings going even without solar generation.

My view going in was the system must pay itself back within the warranty period, even though it's expected life is much longer.
My payback period is currently between 6 and 7 years, for my battery only system (which I'm still waiting for the installation of said system). It was lower before the government introduced the EPG (Energy Price Guarantee), and it may well come down again when the EPG ends.

The wind farm I have purchased a share in, which starts generating next year, will pay back in around 3 to 4 years (from when it starts generating), based on current prices.

Once I have my batteries installed and the wind farm is generating, based on current prices, I expect to be consuming electricity at a little over 7.5p per kWh and producing at 15p+ per kWh which, hopefully, will more than cover any standing charges.

Then I can turn my attention to my heating. My current consideration is to do a straight swap, that is removing my gas combi boiler and installing one of the new Tepeo 'night storage' combi boilers, which are due on the market next year.
 

tek-monkey

wanna see my snake?
We haven't had a call back from Green Logic after they came to quote last Wednesday...
Odd, he was very on the ball with me. Was it Lawrence who came out or someone else? And did they actually give you a quote, or measure up then were meant to be sending you one?

EDIT: Just checked and mine came from proposal@opensolar.com is that helps?
 
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Lucy

Well-Known Forumite
Odd, he was very on the ball with me. Was it Lawrence who came out or someone else? And did they actually give you a quote, or measure up then were meant to be sending you one?

EDIT: Just checked and mine came from proposal@opensolar.com is that helps?
They sent a quote, but we were expecting a call back from the boss as we wanted to discuss some bits. I would have thought they'd have followed up to see if the quote was acceptable and get us booked in. I think the fact we needed planning permission may have scared them off.
 

tek-monkey

wanna see my snake?
They sent a quote, but we were expecting a call back from the boss as we wanted to discuss some bits. I would have thought they'd have followed up to see if the quote was acceptable and get us booked in. I think the fact we needed planning permission may have scared them off.
Strange, could have at least said no they can't do it!
I didn't think you needed planning permission for solar?
 

Manorboy

Well-Known Forumite
My payback period is currently between 6 and 7 years, for my battery only system (which I'm still waiting for the installation of said system). It was lower before the government introduced the EPG (Energy Price Guarantee), and it may well come down again when the EPG ends.

The wind farm I have purchased a share in, which starts generating next year, will pay back in around 3 to 4 years (from when it starts generating), based on current prices.

Once I have my batteries installed and the wind farm is generating, based on current prices, I expect to be consuming electricity at a little over 7.5p per kWh and producing at 15p+ per kWh which, hopefully, will more than cover any standing charges.

Then I can turn my attention to my heating. My current consideration is to do a straight swap, that is removing my gas combi boiler and installing one of the new Tepeo 'night storage' combi boilers, which are due on the market next year.
Once again thank you for your advice it has been very helpful, I have just found this offer https://lr-renewables.co.uk/product/growatt-6-5kw-battery-storage-bundle/ reviews for the company are good on Trustpilot, my only concern about Growatt is their software is not the best?

Also the company from Derby never responded to me either.
 

The Hawk

Well-Known Forumite
Once again thank you for your advice it has been very helpful, I have just found this offer https://lr-renewables.co.uk/product/growatt-6-5kw-battery-storage-bundle/ reviews for the company are good on Trustpilot, my only concern about Growatt is their software is not the best?

Also the company from Derby never responded to me either.
I had a lot of 'no responses' when trying to get quotes; the decent solar/battery companies have, mostly, been swamped by demand outstripping supply. I expected the lead time for my own installation to be in the 6 to 9 month range; hopefully, not too much longer for me now.

The whole area of domestic energy is in a state of turmoil with fluctuating energy costs and emerging technology changing the dynamics on an a daily basis.

Whilst I have a basic idea of what I want to achieve, I am having to adjust and tweak my plans as I go along. For example, I started off with the idea of going down the heat pump route, to replace my gas central heating. Then I discovered, that my house wasn't particularly suited to heat pumps and I would incur significant extra rectification costs. Then, out of nowhere, this new 'night storage' combi boiler came along and that is my current planned route. However, I will need to upgrade my main fuse again and even going from 80A to the current maximum allowed for a single phase supply, which is 100A, may not be enough.

It is very much a long and winding road.
 
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