Baswich Community Group.

Gramaisc · Nov 28, 2022

Are there size restrictions? All I can remember, or see on Street View, is a 7.5 ton weight limit on the canal bridge, plus the obvious assumption that you wouldn't go past those. I've never seen anybody flout that rule.

It's tight, but doable, for a car and a Transit-sized thing to pass on the farm bridge, or the bend at the stone bridge. I don't use it much these days, but a lot of the problem, other than cars getting a little wider, is down to people lacking awareness of where the offside of their vehicle actually is. I've had several instances of people mouthing off at the stone bridge corner, when they've been well over the centre-line and had more than four feet of tarmac beyond the offside of their car.

In the mid-70s, it was virtually single-lane between the farm and Tixall Road/Blackheath Lane. That was awkward for two cars, but it was widened to its current form around 1977ish. This, of course, generated a good bit more traffic and resulted in the standard Stafford response of traffic lights at the crossroads.

proactive · Nov 28, 2022

I've seen articulated lorries stuck on the canal bridge and at the farm bridge before now.

Staffordian82 · Nov 28, 2022

Longer term two options

1) I think this is the route of the eastern distributor - link tixall road with bottom of baswich lane.

2) do a straight line from tixall road (beyond crem lights towards tixall) right down to between weeping x and Milford.
Though option 2 likely completely unpalatable and costly.

I don’t see any other option to these apart from continue with bridges as they are (maybe with lights on one of the bridges if people keep crashing through the barrier) - but the bridges will only become more congested as more housing is built on south side of Stafford.

What’s your view?

Staffordian82 · Nov 28, 2022

proactive said:
What would be your solution then?

Replied above

Staffordian82 · Nov 28, 2022

Gramaisc said:
Are there size restrictions? All I can remember, or see on Street View, is a 7.5 ton weight limit on the canal bridge, plus the obvious assumption that you wouldn't go past those. I've never seen anybody flout that rule.

It's tight, but doable, for a car and a Transit-sized thing to pass on the farm bridge, or the bend at the stone bridge. I don't use it much these days, but a lot of the problem, other than cars getting a little wider, is down to people lacking awareness of where the offside of their vehicle actually is. I've had several instances of people mouthing off at the stone bridge corner, when they've been well over the centre-line and had more than four feet of tarmac beyond the offside of their car.

In the mid-70s, it was virtually single-lane between the farm and Tixall Road/Blackheath Lane. That was awkward for two cars, but it was widened to its current form around 1977ish. This, of course, generated a good bit more traffic and resulted in the standard Stafford response of traffic lights at the crossroads.

Yes agree it is totally doable to have two vehicles if both drivers have good spatial awareness of their vehicle - but more often than not people take the middle line and go for it!

And you are right re weight restriction but I have seen much larger trucks attempting it and causing issues - drove over there every morning rush hour for several yrs

DoggedWalker · Nov 28, 2022

Staffordian82 said:
View attachment 13288Longer term two options

1) I think this is the route of the eastern distributor - link tixall road with bottom of baswich lane.

2) do a straight line from tixall road (beyond crem lights towards tixall) right down to between weeping x and Milford.
Though option 2 likely completely unpalatable and costly.

I don’t see any other option to these apart from continue with bridges as they are (maybe with lights on one of the bridges if people keep crashing through the barrier) - but the bridges will only become more congested as more housing is built on south side of Stafford.

What’s your view?

That second option will never happen. It’s a mile or more in a straight line crossing the railway, river and canal. Bridging those and ensuring the road is elevated to prevent flooding would be £10’s millions.

There’s already the start of something at option 1 with the foot bridge. I can see that being developed as a solution. That said, since it crosses a flood plain I’m not sure I can see the council looking for funding since it doesn’t really open up ‘development’ potential. Oh, and the power of the Baswich/Walton crowd stopping it.

Staffordian82 · Nov 28, 2022

Yes wonder how much more it would have cost for the footbridge/cycle path to be a fully fledged road

Steve_b · Nov 28, 2022

Mudgie said:
Or for the Eastern Distributor Road to be extended beyond Hydrant Way half a mile southwards to the Baswich Lane railway bridge.

Unfortunately, it’s only to St Thomas Bridge.

GNM67 · Nov 28, 2022

GNM67 said:
What is needs is for Hydrant Way to be continued down to St Thomas Lane then an elevated road across the fields & river to join up at the roundabout and then make Baswich Lane between St Thomas Lane & the roundabout bike / resident access only.

I put this on the traffic thread a while ago

Gramaisc · Nov 28, 2022

1 still leaves you with the canal bridge issue.

2 was a semi-serious proposition in the 90s, right across to Junction 13, but it's very unlikely to actually happen now.

I used it daily in the 70s, for four years, and two/three times a week in the 2000s. In the past, the greatest problem was ice on the sloping approach to the canal bridge, vehicles often slid back down, if baulked by an oncoming car as they got to the top - developing the habit of waiting at the bottom was the mark of a regular driver of the route then. And, you still had no pedestrian side-bridges on the canal or the railway bridges then - that could be quite entertaining.

Would it be impossible to add another small parallel bridge at the farm, and make each one-way?

Jonah · Nov 28, 2022

Nothing will get done. The EDR was proposed for about 50 years until it was scrapped. At one point the EDR was supposed to join up from Beaconside (Hydrant Way) at the Saxonfields island, loop around that estate and end up going straight through the middle of Walton High School. It was also proposed to use Baswich Lane as part of the EDR.

Going back to the corner by St Thomas Mill, widening it would be the simplest solution - easiest or most cost effective ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Jonah · Nov 28, 2022

Staffordian82 said:
Yes wonder how much more it would have cost for the footbridge/cycle path to be a fully fledged road

IIRC the footbridge cost about £1.5m. A full road cost is about £30m per mile. If that was a road, I would think it would cost significantly more due to it crossing a flood plain and being built elevated.

gilesjuk · Nov 28, 2022

Jonah said:
IIRC the footbridge cost about £1.5m. A full road cost is about £30m per mile. If that was a road, I would think it would cost significantly more due to it crossing a flood plain and being built elevated.

It was a central government green grant thing that paid for it. There's never any money for roads, even though alleviating congestion on some pinch points would probably result in less pollution overall. Well until the next new housing estate is built to take advantage of the new and improved roads.

DoggedWalker · Nov 29, 2022

gilesjuk said:
It was a central government green grant thing that paid for it. There's never any money for roads, even though alleviating congestion on some pinch points would probably result in less pollution overall. Well until the next new housing estate is built to take advantage of the new and improved roads.

Building homes and maximising the value of new roads is entirely right and proper. We are in a huge mess in this country because of a NIMBY attitude towards house building - from politicians and the public.

As for no money for roads…

Pans Road and associated Western Access Route is pretty seizable in terms of what it opens up and delivers.

proactive · Nov 29, 2022

DoggedWalker said:
Building homes and maximising the value of new roads is entirely right and proper. We are in a huge mess in this country because of a NIMBY attitude towards house building - from politicians and the public.

As for no money for roads…

Pans Road and associated Western Access Route is pretty seizable in terms of what it opens up and delivers.

Not a great deal of use to the south end of town though is it?

Mudgie · Nov 29, 2022

proactive said:
Not a great deal of use to the south end of town though is it?

I would have thought that an extension to the Eastern Distributer Road would have eased congestion more than building the Western Access Route.
But there's probably more NIMBYs living near the Eastern Distributer Road.

Jonah · Nov 29, 2022

Mudgie said:
I would have thought that an extension to the Eastern Distributer Road would have eased congestion more than building the Western Access Route.
But there's probably more NIMBYs living near the Eastern Distributer Road.

Thanks for that sweeping NIMBY statement, much appreciated. #sarcasmintended

I live near the now-ditched EDR route. It was never viable in my opinion because it went straight through pre-existing housing and through Walton High School. FYI I never campaigned against the EDR, I knew it was on the plans before I bought the house where I live, I understand the need for a new road, I just cannot see any route which would help.

The current traffic problem with Baswich Lane has been caused by the new housing estates next the the Crematorium. I have seen a big increase in traffic along the lane since both were built. It's no surprise, people are not going to drive along the Lichfield Road, Riverway and Weston Road to get home or go to work. They will use Baswich Lane.

Gramaisc · Nov 29, 2022

Mudgie said:
I would have thought that an extension to the Eastern Distributer Road would have eased congestion more than building the Western Access Route.
But there's probably more NIMBYs living near the Eastern Distributer Road.

The WAR was never really about easing congestion, more to facilitate extra traffic by providing access to the forthcoming Burleyfields estates - supplying more congestion, in all probability.

gilesjuk · Nov 29, 2022

DoggedWalker said:
Building homes and maximising the value of new roads is entirely right and proper. We are in a huge mess in this country because of a NIMBY attitude towards house building - from politicians and the public.

As for no money for roads…

Pans Road and associated Western Access Route is pretty seizable in terms of what it opens up and delivers.

The point is the traffic is poor now. We need new roads and routes just to get us back to where things were a few decades ago. Adding new roads to then fill them all up again is just pointless. Plus a few new road around the outskirts of town do nothing to fix the problem which is the routes going into the town centre being congested. If you build houses way out of the centre then the roads into the centre get more congested. Especially on the South East of town where your options are. 1. Radford Bank/Lichfield Road. 2. Baswich Lane and then Weston Road. 3. Acton Hill to Wolverhampton Road. All three routes have major congestion issues.

This was Weeping Cross at 6.30pm yesterday. A queue from the mini roundabouts almost up to Hillcroft Avenue.

staffordjas · Nov 29, 2022

Jonah said:
Nothing will get done. The EDR was proposed for about 50 years until it was scrapped. At one point the EDR was supposed to join up from Beaconside (Hydrant Way) at the Saxonfields island, loop around that estate and end up going straight through the middle of Walton High School. It was also proposed to use Baswich Lane as part of the EDR.

My parents were contemplating buying the bungalow on the corner of Oldcroft Rd / Beechfield Drive when those bungalows were first built. I remember looking around it with them. What put them off was the front garden onto Oldcroft Road. The lawn went right to the road , but it didn't all actually belong to the bungalow , as part was earmarked for the EDR .

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