Thanks, Theo.

Rowley Reg

Well-Known Forumite
Praise and everlasting thanks for those remaining Nurses, Doctors and Care staff still working in this inhuman system. The whole thing just fell apart this month, and as a Country, all we seem to be worried about are bottles of You Tube Drink.

Seriously thinking of emigrating to an EU country
 

Lucy

Well-Known Forumite
Praise and everlasting thanks for those remaining Nurses, Doctors and Care staff still working in this inhuman system. The whole thing just fell apart this month, and as a Country, all we seem to be worried about are bottles of You Tube Drink.

Seriously thinking of emigrating to an EU country
Yes absolutely, none of this is their fault.
 

gilesjuk

Well-Known Forumite
Seriously thinking of emigrating to an EU country

Where they have private hospitals, health insurance and some state funding of health. All the things people seem not to want in this country.

Even a friend of mine is pretty left-wing says it is time for private delivery of care as the system isn't working. The problem with the state is it always over-complicates things as it is not driven by efficiency and instead just asks for more funding.
 

tek-monkey

wanna see my snake?
Where they have private hospitals, health insurance and some state funding of health. All the things people seem not to want in this country.

Even a friend of mine is pretty left-wing says it is time for private delivery of care as the system isn't working. The problem with the state is it always over-complicates things as it is not driven by efficiency and instead just asks for more funding.
I'd argue the state asks for more funding because they're stealing it for their mates, making it efficient isn't the desired outcome.
 

gilesjuk

Well-Known Forumite
I'd argue the state asks for more funding because they're stealing it for their mates, making it efficient isn't the desired outcome.

I wasn't referring to the government asking for more tax income. I meant the NHS is always asking for a bigger budget. But then they waste it on "non-jobs" so they can publish better gender pay gap figures, which makes no sense as long as men and woman choose to do different roles.
 

Theresa Green

Well-Known Forumite
I wasn't referring to the government asking for more tax income. I meant the NHS is always asking for a bigger budget. But then they waste it on "non-jobs" so they can publish better gender pay gap figures, which makes no sense as long as men and woman choose to do different roles.

Non jobs

Non doms

Whom do you choose to get upset about?
 
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tek-monkey

wanna see my snake?
I wasn't referring to the government asking for more tax income. I meant the NHS is always asking for a bigger budget. But then they waste it on "non-jobs" so they can publish better gender pay gap figures, which makes no sense as long as men and woman choose to do different roles.
We lose way more money on agency staff covering roles we can't fill because the pay is shit, compared to these 'non jobs'.
 

kyoto49

Well-Known Forumite
Where they have private hospitals, health insurance and some state funding of health. All the things people seem not to want in this country.

Even a friend of mine is pretty left-wing says it is time for private delivery of care as the system isn't working. The problem with the state is it always over-complicates things as it is not driven by efficiency and instead just asks for more funding.
In the politest way possible, what a load of utter crap.
 

kyoto49

Well-Known Forumite
I wasn't referring to the government asking for more tax income. I meant the NHS is always asking for a bigger budget. But then they waste it on "non-jobs" so they can publish better gender pay gap figures, which makes no sense as long as men and woman choose to do different roles.
Award for most clueless post goes to....

Can you back up any of that with evidence, facts and or proof? You know percentage of pay on these so called non jobs in relation to budget, that sort of thing?
 

gilesjuk

Well-Known Forumite
In the politest way possible, what a load of utter crap.

Can you provide examples to disprove my points? merely saying is it rubbish is not a debate. I could merely say back that your comment is utter crap as well and how would that be a debate?

I'll qualify my experience, 12 years working for a supplier of software to the NHS. I know full well how ridiculously complicated the data, reporting etc is. There's a huge industry of suppliers who sell software costing a lot of money to the NHS because every single hospital insists on buying their own PAS system, going to various vendors for software for their mandatory data submissions to the NHS Digital in Leeds. Part of the NPFIT project was to standardise local IT systems and there was that much pushback they canned the idea.

And that's with mentioning things like the internal market, tariffs etc..

I don't blame the NHS entirely, government introduce all sorts of programmes and changes. That's where it being privately run would help to a degree. It works in Germany.
 
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gilesjuk

Well-Known Forumite
Award for most clueless post goes to....

Can you back up any of that with evidence, facts and or proof? You know percentage of pay on these so called non jobs in relation to budget, that sort of thing?

Clueless how? It's obvious that if you employ a woman on £70,000+ whose only degree is in something like social sciences whose career prospects in management are practically zero that when you report statistics on NHS senior level pay etc it will improve the figures.
 

Glam

Mad Cat Woman
We lose way more money on agency staff covering roles we can't fill because the pay is shit, compared to these 'non jobs'.
I could join the agency Medacs, then book a Healthcare Assistant job at St.Georges on my ward, doing exactly the same thing I do day after day and get paid the same as a Qualified Nurse but without any of the hassle.
 
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Lucy

Well-Known Forumite
Clueless how? It's obvious that if you employ a woman on £70,000+ whose only degree is in something like social sciences whose career prospects in management are practically zero that when you report statistics on NHS senior level pay etc it will improve the figures.
So you've shown yourself up as a chauvinist here then? What should women earn? Does a degree matter after a few years of employment? Does it feck.
 

tek-monkey

wanna see my snake?
Ah, so you are very much a massive part of the problem yourself. How many billions has the NHS wasted on crap software over the years? The mind boggles!

NHS patient record system,
COVID app,

etc, etc...
The problem with pretty much every government it system, and this seems to be true for the entire public sector, is that they send managers to specify what is needed rather than people that understand how things work. The software companies seize on this and produce what is asked for rather than what is needed, at a great price, then charge extortionate amounts to make it actually work later.

One great trick is to fully itemise, but with fun costings. The managers will say we need so many of this and so many of that, but you know they really need less of one and more of the other. So you agree an amazing price but weight it so that the one they'll really need more of is really expensive and the one they need less of is cheap. That way the initial quote is great but you really get to charge much more within contract.
 

Mudgie

Well-Known Forumite
The problem with pretty much every government it system, and this seems to be true for the entire public sector, is that they send managers to specify what is needed rather than people that understand how things work. The software companies size on this and produce what is asked for rather than what is needed, at a great price, then charge extortionate amounts to make it actually work later.
That reminds we of going with two colleagues, government but not NHS, to ICL in Bracknell 29 years ago about a new IT system and the most senior of us having no idea about negotiating and nearly accepting less than was being paid for.
 
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