England and McClaren

simon

Ex Bare Nastyman
I don't know if anyone else on here is into football but hey, I'm gutted about the result yesterday, I can’t believe we're supposed to have a golden generation of footballers, some of the best players in the world, and it looks like we're not going to qualify for euro '08, I know Israel could beat Russia, but should we really be relying of other teams to do us favours?

I've not been McClarens biggest fan from the start, I think he's overrated as a manager, he maybe a good No.2 or coach, but that’s about it in my book. (Of course this opinion will change if we qualify and win the damn thing!)

As much as I'm patriotic and proud to be English, and for the life of me I would want an English manager for our national team there's a word that keeps popping into my head......'Jose'

If McClaren were to be axed I'm sure he'd be on the top of the FA's, and most fans wish list, it's just a shame he's already said he wants to manage the Portugal national team!

Wishful thinking or negativity, whatever you want to call it, who should the next England manager be?
 

Sofa

I'm a Staffooooooordian
Please delete as appropriate:

McClaren is clearly a genius / idiot whose ability as a manger can only be described as monumental / truly pathetic. If the national side keep up this track record of winning / losing McClaren can be sure that his days in the top job are celebrated throughout the land / numbered. We are proud / sick of this saviour / bufoon and think he should go down in history as the most love / hated England manager ever.
 

Silverfish

Well-Known Forumite
simon said:
(Of course this opinion will change if we qualify and win the damn thing!)
Why? You said it yourself - we should not be relying on other teams' results for qualification. If we get through (and it's a big if), it will be by the skin of our teeth, after some embarrassing results against teams we should've been demolishing.

We have some great players, but no one who can mould them into a team. McClaren is not the right man for the job, and never was.
 

Astro Boy

Pocket Rocket
Sofa said:
Please delete as appropriate: :blah:
Good point sofa, love it!. This truly highlights how fickle the media / people can be about the national team. When we win there’s a fervour of unjustified hype. When we lose its time to choose a scapegoat. It’s too easy to gloss over the real issues and never deal with the heart of the problem.

Maybe these so called 'world class' international players aren't as good as we give them credit for. Maybe, as a national team, our ranking is simply just not as high as we'd like it to be.

If by some miraculous fortune we get into Eur08 then it will be a disaster. Our national football team needs a serious wake up call. We need to stop the delusions of grandeur and accept the fact that we play like sh*t. Once the truth is accepted then we can start anew and build a team truly worthy of the pedestal we place them on. Moreover, a team truly worthy of winning international tournaments.

But, to be fair, if I knew the answers I'd be the new manager.................... :mad:
 

Augustus Gloop

Well-Known Forumite
I'm sorry but anyone who has followed McClaren's career since he joined Jim Smith at Derby knows what they're getting. He is consitantly referred to as the man who brought Utd the treble (along with Fergie). Fact was he joined halfway through that season and most/if not all of the groundwork had been done by Kidd. Something a lot of the media forgot when hyping him up post-Sven.

The bloke is a charlatan. People moan about him not getting the best out of our 'fantastic' players but this is something I can't understand. His Boro side hardly played with flair and he turned a fantastic attacking player in Mendieta into what was essentially a functional midfielder. Bizarre. His team selection on Wednesday showed the length of his talent too. Drop a footballing left back (Shorey) in favour of a centre back who might nick a goal at a set piece. So badly out of position throughout the game, our one decent midfielder on the day (Joe Cole) spent the best part of 90mins as a wing back. As Russia got more and more joy down that side he did bugger all about it.

However, the press shouldn't moan. They got what they wanted in the end. An English manager and an average one at that. Mind you, if Barwick and the FA hadn't objected to O'Neils long term vision of English football and the changes required from top to bottom he'd have been in post now. Not that I think he was the answer either. England need a big personality in charge like Big Phil. Some big decisions need to be made. I'm not saying this as I'm a Utd fan but in centre midfield Gerrard is a liability. Always has been. Very talented, wonderful to watch at times but that role requires discipline, touch and a vision that doesn't always rely on a defence splitting pass or a 'Hollywood' ball. The footballing brain of an empty crisp packet.

The team needs to be balanced. Until the manager stops sucking up to certain professionals and/or stands up to the FA by dropping one or two of their faves then I think we're heading for a period of terminal decline.

Oh, McClaren won't quit. He actually thinks he can turn it around and I'll be very surprised if the FA sack him. Can they afford the pay out plus the type of salary the new amanger would want?
 

jimbob23

Official 1000th poster
jchiltz said:
Sofa said:
Please delete as appropriate: :blah:
Good point sofa, love it!. This truly highlights how fickle the media / people can be about the national team. When we win there’s a fervour of unjustified hype. When we lose its time to choose a scapegoat. It’s too easy to gloss over the real issues and never deal with the heart of the problem.

Maybe these so called 'world class' international players aren't as good as we give them credit for. Maybe, as a national team, our ranking is simply just not as high as we'd like it to be.

If by some miraculous fortune we get into Eur08 then it will be a disaster. Our national football team needs a serious wake up call. We need to stop the delusions of grandeur and accept the fact that we play like sh*t. Once the truth is accepted then we can start anew and build a team truly worthy of the pedestal we place them on. Moreover, a team truly worthy of winning international tournaments.

But, to be fair, if I knew the answers I'd be the new manager.................... :mad:
I agree with your point about the media, but theirs is a transparent strategy to sell papers by going with the whim of the day, i.e. hatred or worship depending on public feeling due to results. However, from the public's point of view I think everyone's pissed off that none of our most recent managers ever seem to be able to follow the basic principles of basic footballing sense.

When you lose drop 3 points against Croatia because your nation's manager decides to try out a completely new formation, and one that's not been particularly popular or successful, and when he, like his predecessor has, until the last 3 games, persisted in trying to wedge Fat Frank into the team based on nothing but an unwarranted reputation as one of the best midfielders in the World, then it's the gaffer you're going to point the finger at.

Everyone has their own ideas on the right team or formation, but if you compiled the views of most fans and extracted a consensus of opinion, they would have done things differently to MacLaren. Why the public look to the manager first is they, as a body do know a fair bit about the game and they know he's doing the wrong thing. If he'd done what everyone knew made more sense from the start and we'd still failed, then I've no doubt that the majority of fans would look to the players.

Yes, there'll always be an element of people who will unjustifiably lay the blame at one man's door, regardless of the reasons for failure, but I think in this instance the mob has been right to single out MacLaren. Maybe our squad isn't as good as we'd all like to think, but I've no doubt that if all the players we've had available had been used, or not used, in the right way, over the last year or so, we'd be top of the group and coasting (whether we would do well in the tournament is another matter). Unfortunately, MacLaren has never been the right man to lead us there.
 

Furbal

Well-Known Forumite
Can't say I was over the moon when McClaren was appointed, but I did think he would do a reasonable job. Oh how wrong I was! I don't agree jumping on the manager's back if the team aren't playing as they should be, but when they are making the same mistakes that their predecessor was pretty much sacked for, maybe's it's time to think again?

As said before he can't deal with the "Fat Frank" issue either (there is no issue, he's just not good enough in an England shirt!); he's playing players out of position when more suitable players are available (Lescott - fantastic player, but playing out of position on his full England debut ffs); appalling tactics (playing ridiculously deep against Russia, constant long balls when the defence tower above the forwards and leaving it til 10 mins left to make any changes when it was clear a lot earlier things weren't quite right!)

Yes, a lot of the players are overrated, but they are still good...good enough to beat all the teams in our group at least! Some of the players do join up quite well, usually team mates, but as a whole we don't play as a team. Not only that I thought England looked nervous and unmotivated on Wednesday.

As much as I hate to say it, we do need a confident and arrogant manager, who can make decisions and doesn't give a damn what it says in the press. We need someone who can get a bunch of indiviuals playing as a team and someone who instills confidence in the team. And guess who that would be...yep, the "Special One" (Plus lets face it the guy is entertaining to say the least!)
 

TENSHON

4000th post? Whatever, I'm nonchalant..
I always thought McClaren would be a shite manager and that he only got the job because of a few lucky results for Middlesbrough. Having said that, the players, who seem to have a phobia of success at national level should shoulder a chunk of the blame.
 

simon

Ex Bare Nastyman
Augustus Gloop said:
The bloke is a charlatan.
I agree, seems like we've gone from 'one to another'.........bad manager that is! And he is a bit of a 'wierdo'?....Enter other bad charlatans gags here!
 

Augustus Gloop

Well-Known Forumite
Sofa said:
Augustus Gloop said:
The bloke is a charlatan.
He would not have got where he is today... Please see my previous post...
Believe what you want. I know where his reputation stems from and most - if not all of that work - stems form the efforts of Brian Kidd. He didn't hang around at Utd for too long when the first job opportunity arrived. Fair enough but he isn't very good, he cannot make big decisions and he struggles tactically.

He produced a functional Boro side after he left Utd that was pretty much it and he had a lot of money to spend. As for the UEFA Cup run, I'm afraid I don't hold much stock in it and besides is that the best England can hope for? A mid table manager who nearly won the UEFA Cup? Jesus.

However, they can have who they want. I really don't care. I've never had much time for the national team and I still don't this day.

Edit: Tenshon you are right re the players, but ultimately the buck stops with the manager and if he was good enough/bold enough he'd have made some pretty big decisions by now. Dumping Beckham was piss easy in all honesty. As I've said elsewhere O'Neil wanted the job on his own terms, wholesale changes from top to bottom. They wouldn't back him, I'd have to ask why? Phil Scolari wouldn't have been the easiest person to work with but he certainly wouldn't have tried to be buddy buddy with some of the so called stars.
 

FooFighter

Well-Known Forumite
Don't think Redknapp will be available for the job unless they're doing another remake of Mean Machine

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7116823.stm
 

mickyboy

Well-Known Forumite
And why wouldnt the FA (you can add your own interpretation of these initials!!!!! F****** A******** is mine ) appoint Harry as England Gaffer? Because he speaks his mind and doesnt take any nonsense from anyone. The Special One would be a good appointment, but would he fit in with the FA ethic and play by their rules and do as they say and not as they do?
Who would be the #1 choice for the post, English, British or otherwise?
 

Augustus Gloop

Well-Known Forumite
mickyboy said:
And why wouldnt the FA (you can add your own interpretation of these initials!!!!! F****** A******** is mine ) appoint Harry as England Gaffer? Because he speaks his mind and doesnt take any nonsense from anyone.
Erm no, that's not the reason why.

I'm not posting up the reasons why on a public forum but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that the FA might have one eye on a potential scandal or two. I'm no fan of the FA at all btw, as I mentioned earlier O'Neil wanted the job on his own terms but once they said no he walked. And quite rightly so.

Harry's a good manager btw, entertaining too and plays the game in the right way but he gets up to an awful lot of stuff off field. Ahem.
 
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