Planning and traffic in Stafford.... terrible?

Admin

You there; behave!
Staff member
Dabbler said:
I'll get off my soapbox now and try to concentrate on the work I should be doing!!
Get right back on it this instant! ;)

Stafford Forum is a soapbox for everyone, and if one demographic stops posting then it can seem like the opposing party hold the majority opinion, so it's important that everyone speaks their mind round here. :D
 

Miss Red

Well-Known Forumite
KelvinA said:
Get rid of half the traffic lights , that'll sort it out!Traffic flow is impossible with that amount of lights. Also Pelican crossings , I did a survey of my own the other day when I was stopped at a pelican where two people crossed the road . But to allow this there were 12 cars queueing behing me and 7 the other way .Surely, having all these cars queuing is not good for the environment !!
I am in total agreement with you - Whoever is responsible for planning the traffic light system in stafford has a defo fetish for them - if you look where the high build up of traffic is - you will find 4 or 5 traffic lights/crossings within yards of each other!!

Someone said to me the other day they are thinking of giving up driving - I would rather drive round birmingham city center than stafford town center. Theres a lot of driver round here who are (sorry) total idiots!
Like the mini that sped up on me when i was turning right on lichfield road the other day! or the idiot in a volvo who decided he would rather go down past the gaol instead of queensway and cut me up!

Seems to me drivers need educating that cars have "indicators" .


Bad planning on the roads (as is the case here) causes frustrations which lead to idiots on the road, sort the root of the problem out and the rest follows automatically.

Public transport isnt much of an option - until they sort out the running times (no good starting services at 10am and running every hour when people have to get to work!) plus two bus accidents in the last two days in stafford, doesnt give much confidence!

Bikes - there is enough people driving around on bikes who havent got a clue! The pavement bikers (i thought it was illegal to ride on pavement) - the middle of the road bikers (stupid especially as your coming over a hill) - and the one that i notice the most lately - the bikers with no lights!!!!
4 in one day last week, at 5pm!!
If i drove with no lights i would be done for it!!

So more bikers would be a nightmare!

Guess the solution lies with the road planners!
 

Edd209

Well-Known Forumite
its a little hard not to ride on a path when the locals have parked in the cycle lane that was supplied by the council/ traffic managment peeps, such as down weston road/ tixall road.
and you have got to be out of your mind if you think im riding my bike on the road when people are more interested in making phone calls/ doing thier make up/ attending to kids in back seat ect.
im a small disruption to any pedestrian by comparison to dopey get behind wheel of two ton car thats just knocked me off my bike.
if you want to enforce laws make sure they are enforced on everyone all the time.
 

phildo

Well-Known Forumite
KelvinA said:
Get rid of half the traffic lights , that'll sort it out!Traffic flow is impossible with that amount of lights. Also Pelican crossings , I did a survey of my own the other day when I was stopped at a pelican where two people crossed the road . But to allow this there were 12 cars queueing behing me and 7 the other way .Surely, having all these cars queuing is not good for the environment !!
Totally agree.... the environmentalists argue that traffic solutions should be green but they won't accept that a 'green' solution is to allow the traffic to flow freely?? If we did get an Eastern by-pass then cars would be doing 50-60mph and operating at an optimum mpg rather than sitting at 15-20 sets of lights, burning unneccessary fuel and creating more emissions.

Re. Henryscat's argument that there is minimal through traffic - I work in Stoke and there are at least 8 people working where I do who live in Stafford, that's out of about 90 emplyees!! and if you drive through town everyday to and from Stoke you see the same cars day in, day out all having to drive the same roads that are being used by the people who work in town. And if you decide to avoid town then the queues on the lanes between Baswich and Beaconside are also testimony to the demand for a by-pass!
 

Miss Red

Well-Known Forumite
Edd209 said:
its a little hard not to ride on a path when the locals have parked in the cycle lane that was supplied by the council/ traffic managment peeps, such as down weston road/ tixall road.
and you have got to be out of your mind if you think im riding my bike on the road when people are more interested in making phone calls/ doing thier make up/ attending to kids in back seat ect.
im a small disruption to any pedestrian by comparison to dopey get behind wheel of two ton car thats just knocked me off my bike.
if you want to enforce laws make sure they are enforced on everyone all the time.
yes i agree all laws should be enforced regardless of biker or driver.
there are good biker/drivers and bad across the board - you cant clump them together and say all drivers put make up on or have kids in the back!

I think bikers should pay a insurance or tax to ride as do cars (and mobility scooters are soon to do),
 

Jimbo

Well-Known Forumite
There isn't anything wrong with how many traffic-lights there are per-se. The problem is that they aren't set up efficiently. It seems pretty much all are in need of refurbishment and updating. It's technically possible for modern systems to operate different sequences depending on peak-demand/flow, unlike the current fixed time controls. The lights need in-road detectors and proper coordination. I've lost lots of time sat at red-lights when there is no oncoming traffic because the system simply counts a fixed amount of time. Thats inefficient and of no use to anyone.

I work in Wolverhampton and the highways management in the whole of the West Midlands is much better than Staffordshire. Traffic light systems work efficiently, and if there is a problem or incident, sequences can be manually over-ridden to address the problem.

An Eastern bypass won't fix the problem, and the nature of the town means that we can't simply expand the road network, which I personally would say must be near capacity. The situation is only going to get worse as more homes are built.

Cyclists should not have to pay a tax, what a ridiculous notion. They don't cause traffic, or damage the road surface through wear, or create CO2 emissions (tax is now based on emissions and is a Vehicle tax, not a road tax). http://ipayroadtax.com/.
 

Miss Red

Well-Known Forumite
Jimbo said:
Cyclists should not have to pay a tax, what a ridiculous notion. They don't cause traffic, or damage the road surface through wear, or create CO2 emissions (tax is now based on emissions and is a Vehicle tax, not a road tax). http://ipayroadtax.com/.
I said "insurance or tax" okay tax as most of them are on the pavements perhaps the road usage is minimal. But insurance, dont see how that can be a "ridiculous notion"
 

phildo

Well-Known Forumite
Miss Red said:
I think bikers should pay a insurance or tax to ride as do cars (and mobility scooters are soon to do),
I assume that most decent cyclists would have public liability insurance, either as a specialist cyclist policy or as an extra on their home insurance. If a cyclist hit my car or scratched down the side then I would expect it fixing and if they had no insurance then they'd need to pay themselves.

The issue is that it isn't a legal requirement and therefore isn't policed. Making it a requirement wouldn't cost much (quick google came up with £1m of 3rd party cover + cycle covered for loss/damage for £21 per year!) Remember that only third party insurance is required for cars by law, you don't have to insure against the damage to your own car, just the persons you hit, so why not apply the same to cyclists?
 

Goldilox

How do I edit this?
basil said:
Has à cyclist ever been done for going thru' a red?.......
I can't find the link now but I recently read an article with figures to say it happens a lot more often than motorists are done for occupying the cycle only zone at the lights.
 

Gramaisc

Forum O. G.
Goldilox said:
basil said:
Has à cyclist ever been done for going thru' a red?.......
I can't find the link now but I recently read an article with figures to say it happens a lot more often than motorists are done for occupying the cycle only zone at the lights.
Found one in Brighton, but he was being done for a few other things, as well.

I saw a cop car parked on a cycle lane the other day.
 

henryscat

Well-Known Forumite
tek-monkey said:
henryscat said:
How many cars are parked in and around the town centre? What happens when they all depart in a short space of time? What does a a bypass do for them?

Yes, an M6 incident or similar is going to affect Stafford. Unless you close the motorway junctions completely there's no solution to that.
Well, a bypass would mean they **** off out of town and leave the central streets for us to deal with. If there is a motorway disruption at home time, you reduce the locals time wasted drastically as they don't have to conpete with the brum/manc direction traffic.
A bypass can't be justified just incase of motorway disruption though. The amount of traffic that can disgorge from the motorway when there's an incident would clog Stafford with or without an Eastern Bypass.

The point I'm making is that demand for travel into and out of the town centre area is very high and a bypass does not divert that traffic.
 

henryscat

Well-Known Forumite
Miss Red said:
[
if you look where the high build up of traffic is - you will find 4 or 5 traffic lights/crossings within yards of each other!!
For the most part all that stopping at a given set of lights means is that you don't get to the back of the next queue quite so soon. Not really a big deal. If you watch how most of the pedestrian crossings operate, they favour cars massively. Why is a pedestrian's journey less important than a car drivers?

Someone said to me the other day they are thinking of giving up driving - I would rather drive round birmingham city center than stafford town center. Theres a lot of driver round here who are (sorry) total idiots!
Stafford is easy driving. I lived in Brum for 9 years, and Stafford is not hard work to drive around nor does it have anything like the congestion that other places have.


Bad planning on the roads (as is the case here) causes frustrations which lead to idiots on the road, sort the root of the problem out and the rest follows automatically.
What constitutes bad planning? There is not some kind of magic utopian solution that magics unlimited road space and free flowing traffic. Bad driving is not the fault of the road network, it is the fault of the drivers and no-one else. Its like the numpties who say they were "forced" to overtake dangerously because someone in front of them wasn't going fast enough.

Public transport isnt much of an option - until they sort out the running times (no good starting services at 10am and running every hour when people have to get to work!)
Rubbish. Most of Stafford has bus services available from around 7am to late evening. This blanket statement of "public transport isn't much of an option" is usually spouted by people who don't use it. "Not much of an option" is often code for "I like my car too much".

plus two bus accidents in the last two days in stafford, doesnt give much confidence!
What kind of statement is that? You have no idea of the circumstances of those accidents. Buses are far far safer to travel in than cars. How many accidents are there in Stafford each year involving cars? Lots. How many involve buses? Hardly any.

Guess the solution lies with the road planners!
What is this "solution" then?
 

henryscat

Well-Known Forumite
phildo said:
Totally agree.... the environmentalists argue that traffic solutions should be green but they won't accept that a 'green' solution is to allow the traffic to flow freely?? If we did get an Eastern by-pass then cars would be doing 50-60mph and operating at an optimum mpg rather than sitting at 15-20 sets of lights, burning unneccessary fuel and creating more emissions.
A bypass is not some kind of magic utopia that will bring about free flowing traffic forever more. Overall you would end up with more traffic on the network, and any capacity freed up by a bypass would be filled up with latent demand/induced traffic. There is no evidence to suggest that a bypass is an environmentally desirable option.
 

henryscat

Well-Known Forumite
Jimbo said:
There isn't anything wrong with how many traffic-lights there are per-se. The problem is that they aren't set up efficiently. It seems pretty much all are in need of refurbishment and updating. It's technically possible for modern systems to operate different sequences depending on peak-demand/flow, unlike the current fixed time controls. The lights need in-road detectors and proper coordination. I've lost lots of time sat at red-lights when there is no oncoming traffic because the system simply counts a fixed amount of time. Thats inefficient and of no use to anyone.
The traffic lights in Stafford do not work to fixed times, do have detection, and are linked.

I work in Wolverhampton and the highways management in the whole of the West Midlands is much better than Staffordshire. Traffic light systems work efficiently, and if there is a problem or incident, sequences can be manually over-ridden to address the problem.
The West Midlands also has a lot of dual carriageway and motorway... Birmingham was extremely pro-car in the 60s and 70s when a lot of new road was put in (e.g. Aston Expressway, Gravelly Hill Interchange, grade separated dual carriageways such as Birchfield Road, inner ring road). However, the planning of the 60s and 70s has not stood the test of time and causes problems of its own. Grade separation on the inner ring road was removed because it was constraining the City Centre, and for pedestrians was quite unpleasant.


An Eastern bypass won't fix the problem, and the nature of the town means that we can't simply expand the road network, which I personally would say must be near capacity. The situation is only going to get worse as more homes are built.
Agree. The problem is that the current government favours developers who want to build houses in profitable (green field and not in the conurbation) locations which are not where sensible planning policy would tell you to build houses. From a planning point of view, brownfield land in the West Midlands conurbation should be redeveloped for housing, not shoving thousands of houses in Stafford, Lichfield and other similar places.

Cyclists should not have to pay a tax, what a ridiculous notion. They don't cause traffic, or damage the road surface through wear, or create CO2 emissions
Yep, absolutely.
 

Withnail

Well-Known Forumite
Admin said:
Doctor, your posts are very much appreciated, and it is wonderful to see someone so passionate about a subject, but please refrain from further derailing this thread! If you have any suggestions relevant to gk141054's original post, I'd love to see them here. "Get on a bike," is not a suitable answer to every single post. ;)

gk141054 is looking for suggestions regarding planning and traffic in Stafford. Let's keep this thread on that topic! I have moved your posts to the more relevant Environment Thread that jchiltz has set up. :)

Thanks.
There are plenty of threads already in existence where you can have a bash at cyclists -

here, for example .

IN SUMMARY

i) Regarding traffic in Stafford - it's quite bad, not quite as bad as

a) Other places
b) Everybody makes out

ii) Regarding planning for traffic in Stafford - i haven't the first idea how i could make it better, but know

a) EDR ain't going to happen
b) Lots of people think that 'something must be done'
c) Nothing will, or indeed can, be done so get used to living with it

CONCLUSION

- Get on a bike so that those who can't get on a bike can get on a bus without it taking forever.

Or walk.
 

Miss Red

Well-Known Forumite
E&S re new business park weston road 4 way entry to park - its been admitted "the authority objected to traffic lights because it was already subject to significant delays at peak times" "traffic lights will only exacerbate this problem"
So the way i read that is.....traffic lights make traffic worse!

But at the end of the day - Traffic in stafford will get worse (new business park, new riverside development) - thats a no brainer! Without any new roads bypassing the town - it will be know as the "stafford gridlock"

A conclusion of get on yer bike or walk - is not an option for some people, If for instance you work in eccleshall and have to be in work monday - sat 7.30am - 5pm (the bus didnt turn up or my bus dont arrive till 8am ) just isnt going to wash with employers!!
Or a night worker in Market drayton!!!! Thats a no go.
So wake up and look beyond the nose - theres a world outside your bike shed!!
 

Withnail

Well-Known Forumite
Miss Red said:
A conclusion of get on yer bike or walk - is not an option for some people, If for instance you work in eccleshall and have to be in work monday - sat 7.30am - 5pm (the bus didnt turn up or my bus dont arrive till 8am ) just isnt going to wash with employers!!
Or a night worker in Market drayton!!!! Thats a no go.
I appreciate that many people need to use a car to get to work - but likewise there are many, many who live and work in Stafford who don't.

How many people live within a five-mile radius of town who work in the town centre? I don't know the answer, but it must be loads. How many of them choose to drive to work? Too many. If the people who didn't need a car to get to work chose another option it would free up road capacity for those that do, so suggesting alternatives to driving is not flippant or off-topic in any way.

The simple facts are that there are no options available to expand the road network of this town that aren't hugely expensive and/or destructive - we have to live with what we have. The only plan that makes any sense is to change people's behaviour, not road layouts traffic lights etc.

So wake up and look beyond the nose - theres a world outside your bike shed!!
Is it a world of dread and fear?
 
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