Dangerous pedestrian crossing

[gilesjuk]

Has anyone ever been run over or had a near miss at the pedestrian crossing near the old Lloyds Bank (near the Hough retail park)?

Only it is a really badly designed crossing, there's only traffic flow signals on the one side, meaning people who rather naughtily wait in the yellow box and then turn when the red lights come on are missing the fact the green man is on.

My friend who has a guide dog has recorded video of at least 3 cars going through while the green man is showing. If you can't easily see the cars coming then you're likely to get run over.

Here's the Google street view showing the pedestrian crossing with lights only on the one side.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.8...4!1soJvxpjI-0RN-Pyt4RU2xDw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Now I realise waiting on the yellow box area is an offense, but for the sake of a few quid for some extra lights it might save someone getting run over. It's not like anyone is going to stand there all day writing tickets for those in the yellow box.

 

[Gramaisc]

If you are turning right and your exit is blocked by oncoming traffic, it is not an offence to stop in a box junction.

Rule 174 - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/using-the-road-159-to-203

 

[gilesjuk]

Never knew that rule. So this makes this junction even more badly designed then, there genuinely needs to either be lights on both sides or some way to determine if anyone is turning right, then avoid having the green man show when people are potentially driving that way.

Really amazed nobody has been killed.

 

[Gramaisc]

Never knew that rule. So this makes this junction even more badly designed then, there genuinely needs to either be lights on both sides or some way to determine if anyone is turning right, then avoid having the green man show when people are potentially driving that way.

Really amazed nobody has been killed.

That has been the rule since box junctions arrived in the late 1960s - in the rest of (mainland) Europe all junctions are, in effect, to be treated as box junctions should be here*.

* But, the other way round, obviously.



Badly designed junctions, particularly from the pedestrian perspective, are a bit of a local tradition.

 

[cj1]

The green Man comes on too early from memory 3 seconds after the light turns red this is insufficient time for traffic to clear the junction who entered legally on a green light. It may be worth reporting it to Staffordshire highways. https://www.staffordshire.gov.uk/transport/staffshighways/Roads-and-highways.aspx

 

[Gramaisc]

There was a plan, in the late 1980s, to replace that junction with a roundabout.

The old Polish Club (now the dentist's place) was purchased with the intention of knocking it down, and the new Polish Club, on Riverway, was built with the money.

After the transaction, I understand, it was discovered that there were legal obstacles to demolishing the building, and it was used as Council facilities for a while, before being sold on.

 

[gilesjuk]

They can knock the Lloyds Bank building down instead now of course they won't, due to considerable value.

If they did put a roundabout there then they could re-instate the right turn onto Riverway and save a lot of congestion around the Hough retail park.

 

[Thehooperman]

If you are turning right and your exit is blocked by oncoming traffic, it is not an offence to stop in a box junction.

Rule 174 - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-highway-code/using-the-road-159-to-203

This is correct but also pedestrians have priority if they have started to cross so in this instance I think the motorist should give way.

 

[Gramaisc]

This is correct but also pedestrians have priority if they have started to cross so in this instance I think the motorist should give way.

That is true, as it is at any similar situation, but few modern drivers would acknowledge that priority.

 

[proactive]

If they did put a roundabout there then they could re-instate the right turn onto Riverway and save a lot of congestion around the Hough retail park.

Oh the naivety of it all.

In the event of a roundabout being built there, Highways would of course ensure that each entry/exit to it would be governed by traffic lights. Thereby maintaining the expected flow of traffic in Stafford.

 

[gilesjuk]

This is correct but also pedestrians have priority if they have started to cross so in this instance I think the motorist should give way.

They should, but look at the crossing on Google streetview at linked above, there are no Red/Amber/Green lights on the left side of the crossing where the driver will be looking.

 

[c0tt0nt0p]

Never knew that rule. So this makes this junction even more badly designed then, there genuinely needs to either be lights on both sides or some way to determine if anyone is turning right, then avoid having the green man show when people are potentially driving that way.

Really amazed nobody has been killed.

If that rule were in place, no one would ever get to turn right unless they had a bespoke right turn only light...

Ive lived on the crossings estate for 9 years and in the time where I've turned right from Lichfield road to where the bank was (via the hatched box) is never gone to a green man to allow pedestrians to cross it's always been a green light for Riverway traffic to go ahead and traffic waiting opposite the bank

 

[Gramaisc]

Oh the naivety of it all.

In the event of a roundabout being built there, Highways would of course ensure that each entry/exit to it would be governed by traffic lights. Thereby maintaining the expected flow of traffic in Stafford.

To be fair, they did, thirty years ago, replace the Silkmore Lane / Lichfield Road lights with a roundabout - with only a double pelican crossing, light-wise.

 

[gilesjuk]

Oh the naivety of it all.

In the event of a roundabout being built there, Highways would of course ensure that each entry/exit to it would be governed by traffic lights. Thereby maintaining the expected flow of traffic in Stafford.

How could I have been so naive. Of course, what I was told in the past is the reason there are traffic lights there is due to the large trucks leaving Alstom which need the traffic lights taking down so they can make the junction. With a roundabout there that won't be possible.

 

[Gramaisc]

How could I have been so naive. Of course, what I was told in the past is the reason there are traffic lights there is due to the large trucks leaving Alstom which need the traffic lights taking down so they can make the junction. With a roundabout there that won't be possible.

Gated roundabouts, for exactly that reason, are another local speciality. There used to be one just at the other end of Riverway.

 

[cj1]

This is correct but also pedestrians have priority if they have started to cross so in this instance I think the motorist should give way.

Tricky one this. I was under the understanding priority would be with the driver as they would be mid maneuver when the man turns green so should be allowed to finish said manover. But if the pedestrian started there manuver first then they have porority.

 

[Thehooperman]

They should, but look at the crossing on Google streetview at linked above, there are no Red/Amber/Green lights on the left side of the crossing where the driver will be looking.

You don't need a light to give way to pedestrians, you just need the ability to know the Highway Code, have good spacial awareness of other road users around you and an understanding that other people/forms of mobility also use the roads and your car doesn't always have priority.

It's not hard really.

 

[gilesjuk]

If that rule want in place, no one would ever get to turn right unless they had a bespoke right turn only light...

Ive lived on the crossings estate for 9 years and in the time where I've turned right from Lichfield road to where the bank was (via the hatched box) is never gone to a green man to allow pedestrians to cross it's always been a green light for Riverway traffic to go ahead and traffic waiting opposite the bank

Here's a screengrab from the video my friend uploaded (facebook only or I would share it here). You can quite clearly see the car going over the crossing while the green man is on. About two more cars go over after it too.

 

[Gramaisc]

Tricky one this. I was under the understanding priority would be with the driver as they would be mid maneuver when the man turns green so should be allowed to finish said manover. But if the pedestrian started there manuver first then they have porority.

If the pedestrian is crossing the road already, the motorist does not have priority - but, as said above, few will acknowledge this nowadays.

 

[gilesjuk]

You don't need a light to give way to pedestrians, you just need the ability to know the Highway Code, have good spacial awareness of other road users around you and an understanding that other people/forms of mobility also use the roads and your car doesn't always have priority.

It's not hard really.

Yes and I would agree, except practically nobody is stopping at this crossing. So something needs to be fixed.