Dossers

[Admin]

Thanks to Colin Grigson for stopping this thread from being so one-sided, and well done to Lunar Scorpion for sticking with it and not letting the responses get to her. If you start a thread with a controversial statement, you can expect controversial opinions in response - which certainly seems to be the case here!

 

[shoes]

LS: What are you so depressed about? I'm assuming its not because you have no income or are homeless, because you're not. You say you have GCSEs and some quals in Word/Excel etc. which shows you are not incapable. You have also held a job, again you are not incapable. I think you misunderstand the world and think it owes you a living.

 

[ODB_69]

LS: What are you so depressed about? I'm assuming its not because you have no income or are homeless, because you're not. You say you have GCSEs and some quals in Word/Excel etc. which shows you are not incapable. You have also held a job, again you are not incapable. I think you misunderstand the world and think it owes you a living.

Depression comes in many forms and sometimes it cannot be easily put into a category like 'I am depressed because of 'x'....

I have had many friends and a couple of Ex's who suffered with depression

Being capable but unable is one thing, but being unwiling is another, LS would only be a dosser if they were unwilling which isnt the case as far as I can see

 

[shoes]

I understand that it comes in many forms, and I am no expert, but from my own experiences of depression (I have never been what I would call truly depressed) I think it can be somewhat psychosomatic too. For example recently I have been under a lot of stress, had a lot of family and work problems and I have been sufering with anxiety. My doctor tried to convince me I was depresed and I should take this, that and the other.

If you just believe what you're told (and no offence LS but you are a marketer's wet dream) then EVERYONE would be depressed, EVERYONE would have eating disorders, sleeping disorders etc.

Whilst I am not saying you are not depressed, I would be willing to bet you are not actually as bad as thee doctor and supposed support groups have told you. Depression is a very very fasionable disorder at the moment particularly amongst the young and stupid.

The fact you are on here arguing with people shows you are not so detached from reality/society that working is not an option.

Shoes

 

[tek-monkey]

Ok, sounds like depression to me, (not that I'm a Doctor or anything, really, I'm not) but just because you managed, does that automatically mean that others with different circumstances, feelings & depths of depression should or could manage also? You worked, were you in employment throughout this period or were you faced with the challenge of finding a job from being unemployed with little work history?

IIRC, this would be a period covering probably 5 jobs and my 3 months unemployed. It was the unemployed part that did my swede in, was climbing the walls. Think I'd have needed medication to stay like that any longer, I probably got a job more for my sanity than money (although I was living on 10p noodles!).

There are excellent forums at netdoctor.co.uk where I resided for a while only a few years ago. I can't remember if it was a quote or an advice page that basically recommended that people with depression should try to remember the time consuming things they did when they were happy and revisit them. Do the things now that made you happy then. So, given that LS is a socialist, has been on Marches (as was I, as did I) maybe the LMHR thing is exactly what she needs to be doing to build self-confidence, to obtain & maintain interaction with people without being nervous, to have a purpose without feeling cajoled and forced into it as a work environment would. It offers voluntary relationships rather than forced, mutual recognition of shared goals & shared interests,

Maybe, I'm no doctor. Like I said earlier, I got a decent kick up the arse when my mate died. Brings things into perspective, I've been a very positive person since despite how I felt.

However, I think LS is depressed, not a dosser and certainly does not need badgering to "get a job". People with depression will make statements of all kinds, this is a forum, we are dealing with the written word, it is not always really possible to express oneself clearly, concisely & coherently according to the value systems of other people, especially when a person is being treated for depression.

Do agree words can be interpreted wrong, had a few rows with the GF that started with a text message that could be taken 2 ways! (If you're reading this, I always mean the good way )

 

[MyCult]

Lunar you alone have contributed well over 3,500 words to this. Tek, Shoes you guys clocking up the word count too. Others have contributed sizable amounts. This is something people are pasionate about so well done to Lunar and Si for inadvertently gettting this started.

Lunar you can write, analyse, argue a point and empathise very well. You are not without skills and clearly very intelligent. On Thursday (11 days ago) when this all started if you spent your time and found work instead of contributing (the well written, well thought out arguments with references) to this thread, EVERY SINGLE person would here have nothing but admiration for you. Anyone doubting you or you veiwpoint would have to eat there words.

It's those kinds of people that scared the shit out of me threatening to get my JSA stopped because I hadn't applied for 6 jobs - I found that very distressing.

Everyone is scared. Scared the shit out of my when I have worked hard for months only to be told that I might still lose my job. I found my lack of financial security very distressing. I was depressed at the thought of asking other people to support me. So upset, distressed and depressed in fact I went on a march. Or was it in March... I forget the details, see ever since then I’ve been very busy working.

Wibble

 

[Alan B'Stard]

Just because you managed, does that automatically mean that others with different circumstances, feelings & depths of depression should or could manage also?

You didn't answer this one, which would be interesting?

I got a decent kick up the arse when my mate died. Brings things into perspective, I've been a very positive person since despite how I felt.

It had the very opposite effect on my brother after one friend after another died in a wide variety of scenarios. Do you see what I mean about how different people respond to different circumstances?

 

[tek-monkey]

Sorry, fair enough. Do I believe others should cope because I did? I dunno, I only have my own experiences to go on. Maybe I am mentally supposed to be happy, so the idea of depression didn't sit right? Maybe I wasn't depressed enough, so could still pull myself out of it? Maybe I was just a stronger person, or they are weaker? All I know is sat at home thinking woe is me did me fook all good, so I stopped doing it. When I first gave in to the doc, I had to tell my boss what medication I was on. They wanted me to stay at home, I pretty much insisted I worked.

Fair enough, someone depressed may not see how getting out and doing stuff can help them. Can they see how sitting at home doing nowt helps them?

As for your brother losing friends, can't really comment on that. Just goes back to my earlier post, if its something you can't change then there's no point getting down about it - cos it can't change. Sure be upset, sure be annoyed, but don't let it ruin your life because there's fook all you can do about it. I thought this was a common way of thinking, guess I'm just lucky.

 

[Alan B'Stard]

Fair enough, someone depressed may not see how getting out and doing stuff can help them. Can they see how sitting at home doing nowt helps them?

Real depression means seeing nothing, it is helplessness, meaningless, a void, a black hole, a bloody awful place to be, there is no beginning, no end, no future.

Nothing anybody can say or do helps, only time, and the great saying is that time is a great healer, which for me it was as well as a change in circumstances. Moving on, accepting change and a different life, different direction.

The solution is always different, the pain is quite real and quite similar for many.

Some move on easier than others, as you seemed to be able to do, others find it more difficult.

I wish others following this thread could understand this.

 

[MyCult]

Lunar, you write well. Better than I do (not difficult). You seem fairly web-savvy too. Have you thought about working online? Use the skills you currently have to bolster you're income?

If you search for get paid to write articles on Google there are over 14,000,000 results. There are hundreds of Webmasters over at DP looking for good copy writers. I'm not suggesting this will get you rich, it won't, but it may afford you a few more luxuries and contribute to your general well being. I know people whose entire job is copy writing for webmasters. A step in the right direction maybe?

 

[shoes]

From my previous post, I really don't care if she is a dosser! It's not possible to "doss" all your life and there becomes a time when a person can & will economically contribute to society. It is also possible for a "dosser" to contribute to society in ways which are not economically quantifiable.

We need to reorganise the tax system. Everyone should contribute to what they feel is necessary. For example everyone pays the same amount of tax as they do now but every year you get to return a slip from your P60 (for the dossers here its the annual kick in the face from the Inland Revenue where they tot up all the tax your have paid in the previous year and present it to you with a middle finger with a soverign ring from argos on it) which allows you to specify how much of your tax goes on infrastructure, welfare (broken down into pensions, dossers, REAL jobseekers, incapacity etc.), defence, healthcare, education, arts, sports, financial circulation, EU etc.

I for one would not tick the box for dossers or defence. Nor arts or sports to be honest but thats another thread. Might start it actually, "Mis appropriation of funds by the government". On the other hand you can tick the box to pass your hard earned money onto dossers. Or save a stamp, flush your cash.

How is it possible for a dosser to contribute to society in a non economically quantifiable way? EVERYTHING is quantifiable, even human life (apparently).

 

[Slainte]

Lunar, you write well. Better than I do (not difficult). You seem fairly web-savvy too. Have you thought about working online? Use the skills you currently have to bolster you're income?

If you search for get paid to write articles on Google there are over 14,000,000 results. There are hundreds of Webmasters over at DP looking for good copy writers. I'm not suggesting this will get you rich, it won't, but it may afford you a few more luxuries and contribute to your general well being. I know people whose entire job is copy writing for webmasters. A step in the right direction maybe?

Hurrah to MyCult to suggesting something positive, as even with my last couple of posts on here I feel it is more a 'get at' to Lunar as they appear to be the main person experiencing the tax and benefit system to their advantage and appears to becoming a teeny bit of a scapegoat at times towards it.
The thread is more about the fact that benefits and taxes system is slightly screwed up and needs re-evaluating and some people need to stop living in the ideal of the government owing them something for nothing and those people who pop out kids for the fact they get a house and higher tax credits etc.
So Lunar, whilst I appluad you for giving up your time for events like LMHR, and obviously having the high skills you have with the well written threads and the ability to provide good arguments, I don't think you can convince me that the whole is crocked up. This is highlighted that if we all lived 80+ miles west we wouldn't be paying prescription charges for vital prescription drugs we need etc....It should be free for everyone, but then if those charges were taken away then the country would get taxed on something else...

 

[Lunar Scorpion]

At last we have some positivity, and there is someone on here who actually understands!

By the way, encouragement is scientifically proven to be more effective at motivating people than criticism - it's like you WANT me to be be depressed...

 

[shoes]

Don't be silly, no one wants anyone else depressed. We want quite the opposite, there is just a lot of debate as to what constitutes fair appropriation of the wealth gathered from the treasury and who should be throwing into the kitty.

It's certainly an interesting one, and although your and I are directly opposed on the matter I do respect you for sticking with it in this very unfairly weighed debate.

You're not alone though, I have surrendered two points in the duration of this thread!

Edit: 3 points now