How to heat a paddling pool?

c0tt0nt0p

Well-Known Forumite
I believe economy 10 is popular now. Everytime I talk to meter reading staff or similar they all seem to be on economy 10. For many this is a good idea since you get cheap rates during normal day hours and often get 3 chances a day to take advantage of the cheap rates.

Get ready for a potential massive change in the energy market once Smart meters start to become the norm. With luck bespoke tariffs will become available via remote programming of meters.
 

proactive

Enjoying a drop of red.
Get ready for a potential massive change in the energy market once Smart meters start to become the norm. With luck bespoke tariffs will become available via remote programming of meters.
That'll be bespoke tarrifs designed to ensure that the energy companies screw us for even more than they do already.
 

wmrcomputers

Stafford PC & laptop repair specialist
Well, my 18 tons of water is currently being pumped away in favour of a new pool arriving tomorrow. This time I've gone for the same 15ft diameter but only 3ft deep instead of 4. Sounds silly, but my theory is that the same amount of solar energy (same water surface area) will now only have to heat around 70% of the water volume as previously. Shallower water = warmer water = more useable days (hopefully)
 

hop

Well-Known Forumite
Get ready for a potential massive change in the energy market once Smart meters start to become the norm. With luck bespoke tariffs will become available via remote programming of meters.

Smart meters are a huge con. There is no standard or agreed protocols involved and the data link is via the cellular network.
Change provider and the smart features will not work with a different provider and you will require a new smart meter. Couple that with the ability for someone to turn off your supply remotely and you have poor system in my opinion. From a government perspective the ability to selectively turn off the supply to high use users as part of an cheapskate way to deliver peak demands might appeal.
Absolute con.
 

c0tt0nt0p

Well-Known Forumite
Smart meters are a huge con. There is no standard or agreed protocols involved and the data link is via the cellular network.
Change provider and the smart features will not work with a different provider and you will require a new smart meter. Couple that with the ability for someone to turn off your supply remotely and you have poor system in my opinion. From a government perspective the ability to selectively turn off the supply to high use users as part of an cheapskate way to deliver peak demands might appeal.
Absolute con.

SMART Meters are not a huge con. What is a con is energy suppliers (as currently) quoting "SMART" when they are basic upgrades on the current meters. When I told about "SMART" meters I mean meters that meet the SMETS2 specification required to operate once the SMART DCC is rolled out. The SMETS2 is the baseline and stadard protocol that the industry will base itself on. Alas some suppliers hedged their bets in advance on what this specification was going to be and have had their fingers burnt hence the need to swap out the meters, however they have until 2018-2020 to do this.

The data link will be cellular because that is the tried and tested way of transferring data for existing AMR and Half Hourly supplies. There will be issues in terms of connectivity but thats to be expected. SMART Meters won't initially be installed in poor signal areas.

Residential suppliers will not be remotely cutting off supplies to residential properties as is currently the case, there's little chance that OFGEM would allow them to do such a thing.

I currently work for a B2B Energy supplier and have been involved in SMART implementation for the last 12 months....there's a lot of mis-information doing the rounds...
 

hop

Well-Known Forumite
@c0tt0nt0p

They are an absolute waste of money in a domestic context, where it no hassle to take a few readings. There is a already a bureau which records historical usage, so a change in pattern would be very simple to observe - besides if someone is going to steal power such a Vietnamese operated gang growing cannabis in a rented property then they will cut into the cables before the meter.
So where is the saving ? A promise of flexible tarrifs ? We already have that with Economy 7 and 10. Having the ability to get a cheap hour here or there is of no use to anyone. The main power consumption devices in the average domestic premise will be a Washing Machine or Dishwasher both of which will generally have a minimum cycle of 90 minutes. On top of this many people lack the timers and indeed many modern appliances now require a "start button" to be be physically pressed so can't operate on a simple mechanical timer.

As for the spin about them saving the consumer money then how ? Power companies already offer free near real time monitoring devices so you can see how much power is being used. On the odd occasion you might determine through the monitor screen that something extra is in use and then realise that you left the fluorescent strip lights on in the garage. But in reality you are most likely to see a saving by upgrading an appliance to an A+ model, but the economics mean this is not worth while unless the old machine has failed . Rather than wasting billions on the pointless meters which will do little towards achieving carbon reductions the same amount of money could be given to a customer towards a new fridge or other machine where a saving could be made. Perhaps the same amount of money could be spent in replacing consumers 50W halogen bulbs with 5w LEDs. Which would make a real difference in saving power, money and CO2.

Basically these are a solution looking for a problem. Much like all these "Internet of Things" devices. I have seen very few real uses cases for most of these devices either.

I for one will refuse a smart meter and I know many others particularly those who have a Feed in Tarriff of 43p per KwH and with spin dials which operate in reverse from solar system who will also refuse a meter.
 

Gramaisc

Forum O. G.
Will there no longer be a requirement to actually see the meters every so often - I think it used to be at least once in two years, if it isn't still that. That's about how often anybody actually reads mine here.

They send me an estimated bill and I send them the real readings. Seems smart enough.
 

hop

Well-Known Forumite
If was a big energy provider I would be more worried about my entire business model.
You can get solar panels for very little now and storage has improved a great deal with devices like the Tesla Power wall able to store 7Kw per cell and be banked together.
The powerwall is still a bit on the expensive side as a new technology but will drop in price in due course. At this point is is feasible many could operate off grid and avoid all standing charges and the like.
There are some interesting papers by energy market researchers at some of the main invesent banks who highlight the vulnerability of the electric companies business model now storing solar energy is becoming viable.
 

wmrcomputers

Stafford PC & laptop repair specialist
derailed-train.jpg
:lol:
 

wmrcomputers

Stafford PC & laptop repair specialist
I always used to give menual reading like @Gramaisc , but since being with Mrs WMR (and the bill is in her name) I've never bothered and neither does she. They seem to read our meters around every 6 months. Maybe that's why we're paying 17p/unit! ;)
 

c0tt0nt0p

Well-Known Forumite
Will there no longer be a requirement to actually see the meters every so often - I think it used to be at least once in two years, if it isn't still that. That's about how often anybody actually reads mine here.
Suppliers are obliged required to have 97% of their portfolios consumption read every 14 months (meter reader or customer provided)... Meters should get a visual inspection every 2 years (carried out by meter reader)...
 

Gramaisc

Forum O. G.
Crop circle?

Meters should get a visual inspection every 2 years (carried out by meter reader)...
I've had them get arsey about access to empty dwellings - threatening court orders and the like. Despite me telling them that I'll let them in at any time they have a lad in the area, with around twenty minutes notice, they come back with the old "We can only give an eight-hour window" nonsense, At which point, I ask the person on the phone at the time to book a day off and sit in an empty house with me for eight hours.
 
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