1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Welcome to Stafford Forum. Please or sign-up and start posting!

The moral argument of eating meat & dairy

Discussion in 'Lifestyle, Health & Diet' started by Mikinton, Dec 31, 2011.

  1. henryscat

    henryscat Well-Known Forumite

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2007
    Messages:
    2,769
    Likes Received:
    427
    "When all is said and done" is that the most intelligent contribution you can come up with? Go and kill your own pig then come back and say that... "When all is said and done" you probably couldn't.
     
  2. tek-monkey

    tek-monkey wanna see my snake?

    Joined:
    May 15, 2007
    Messages:
    22,843
    Likes Received:
    8,435
    I could, it's just a pig. I'd love to have the space to raise my own, a few mates have raised and slaughtered pigs and geese and it seems a good idea to me. Fresh, always on hand, sorted. The main problem is all the faffing with the offal, making sausages etc. so as not to waste anything.

    Ducks could be a plan too, pretty easy to keep but again you need land.
     
  3. andy w

    andy w Well-Known Forumite

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2011
    Messages:
    1,437
    Likes Received:
    417
    I like my meat(oo er missis) but I can see it becoming an expensive luxury in the future. We in the developed world have had money to afford a plentiful diet and now the developing nations are becoming more wealthy their people are able to buy foods they couldn't afford in the past.I read somewhere that China has an increasing problem with obesitity.
    With countries like China and India developing rapidly we are talking of billions of extra consumers and we are already seeing raw materials, fuel and food at very high prices. Modern farming methods,farming under used areas ie Russia, and dare I say GM crops will meet alot of the extra demand but I believe food, meat,dairy,vegtables will become increasingly expensive
     
  4. Mikinton

    Mikinton Well-Known Forumite

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2011
    Messages:
    2,506
    Likes Received:
    1,679
    You're right .... I probably couldn't. (I'm not sure what point you're making, but anyway ..... )
     
  5. Glam

    Glam Mad Cat Woman

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2010
    Messages:
    9,428
    Likes Received:
    6,351
    The only bit of a pig that isn't used in 1 shape or form, is its oink.
     
  6. tek-monkey

    tek-monkey wanna see my snake?

    Joined:
    May 15, 2007
    Messages:
    22,843
    Likes Received:
    8,435
    If I could work out how to cook an oink I would!
     
  7. Gramaisc

    Gramaisc Forum O. G.

    Joined:
    May 25, 2008
    Messages:
    48,584
    Likes Received:
    24,731
    You need two for this recipe.
     
  8. tek-monkey

    tek-monkey wanna see my snake?

    Joined:
    May 15, 2007
    Messages:
    22,843
    Likes Received:
    8,435
    That looks really nice! What cut of met would that be in the UK? Never seen bone in butt before.

    Apart from the odd 'specialist' video :strange:

    Edit: apparently its just shoulder.
     
  9. Gramaisc

    Gramaisc Forum O. G.

    Joined:
    May 25, 2008
    Messages:
    48,584
    Likes Received:
    24,731
    Rather strangely, I think that it's what we might call a 'pork shoulder'..

    And I do not recommend Googling 'pork butt'... :o

    I also suspect that this may not be appropriate in a thread with a title such as this one has.
     
  10. tek-monkey

    tek-monkey wanna see my snake?

    Joined:
    May 15, 2007
    Messages:
    22,843
    Likes Received:
    8,435
    Lol, good point. Admin, any chance of a pork butt thread?
     
  11. Gramaisc

    Gramaisc Forum O. G.

    Joined:
    May 25, 2008
    Messages:
    48,584
    Likes Received:
    24,731
    :pig: :bum:
     
  12. henryscat

    henryscat Well-Known Forumite

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2007
    Messages:
    2,769
    Likes Received:
    427
    Whilst I disagree with you (especially saying "it's just a pig"), at least you're prepared to do what the vast majority of meat eaters aren't prepared to do.
     
  13. henryscat

    henryscat Well-Known Forumite

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2007
    Messages:
    2,769
    Likes Received:
    427
    In which case don't eat meat....
     
  14. db

    db #chaplife

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2006
    Messages:
    8,839
    Likes Received:
    466
    lighten up :roll:
     
  15. db

    db #chaplife

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2006
    Messages:
    8,839
    Likes Received:
    466
    you've tried this one on me before and it just doesn't make any sense..

    i can't build a bridge - does that mean i shouldn't use them?
    i can't harvest & prepare tea - does that mean i shouldn't drink it?
    etc.

    i'm sure you will come back with some tenuous retort that no-one will agree with, but even if you manage to, it will be irrelevant - the point is, thanks to evolution, industrialisation, etc. we don't have to do that stuff.. someone out there farms, slaughters, and prepares the meat for us, so we don't have to.. i don't care about how it has ended up on my plate, really..

    i'm sure you will argue that that is because i am a selfish, hideous example of a human being (you may even put "human" in quotation marks, for added facetiousness), but if that were the case and i was in the minority, we wouldn't have the enormous meat industry that we have these days and you wouldn't be making pointless arguments that no-one agrees with lol..

    thanks to the internet and other modern media, we are all pretty well informed about how the manufacturing industry works.. we know our meat is mechanically separated, blasted from the bone with jets of water and mushed up.. we've seen the animals having a less than fun time of it.. but, as mikinton says:

    [​IMG]
     
  16. henryscat

    henryscat Well-Known Forumite

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2007
    Messages:
    2,769
    Likes Received:
    427
    Engage your brain and it might...


    There is a difference. Eating meat involves paying someone to kill and inflict harm on your behalf. The extension of your logic is this: that Nazi officers in World War 2 were not guilty of war crimes and the Holocaust because they paid others to exterminate Jews on their behalf. Those giving the orders were just as guilty as those carrying out the crimes. Or would you disagree?

    No you are not well informed, nor are the much of the population. Most people choose to live in ignorance of where their meat comes from. And on the latter point, no you haven't.
     
    clara jayne likes this.
  17. tek-monkey

    tek-monkey wanna see my snake?

    Joined:
    May 15, 2007
    Messages:
    22,843
    Likes Received:
    8,435
    Killing an animal for food is not a crime, as long as you adhere to the legal standards in its life and death.
     
  18. henryscat

    henryscat Well-Known Forumite

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2007
    Messages:
    2,769
    Likes Received:
    427
    Yes, you're right that prices will likely rise. At a global scale, feeding such a huge proportion of crops to animals for meat is unsustainable. The only way of moving towards a position of there being sufficient food supply is a significant reduction in consumption of meat and dairy (and before anyone anti-veggie says I would say that, there are plenty of carnivorous academics who are of this opinion). GM and intensive farming methods are also problematic and by no means a magic solution. On top of that the United States skews the world grain market by subsidising its farmers to ridiculous extent with a huge knock on effect for the developing world.

    There is a direct link between rising obesity and rising meat/dairy consumption. The UK was at more or less its healthiest just after WW2, because people's diets were much more balanced than they are now - not suggesting a return to rationing by any means, but it was designed based upon nutritional requirement along with a lot of public education on the subject. Jack Drummond, whose murder is still a mystery did a lot - http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/nottingham/hi/people_and_places/newsid_9402000/9402414.stm

    Also, the food industry makes a lot of profit out of flogging high fat and high sugar content foods. An increase in the take up of fast food also equals an increase in obesity.
     
  19. Graham

    Graham Graham

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2011
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    7
    What is the difference between eating a chicken that was once alive than eating a lettuce that once was too? A more developed nervous system?

    There seem to be a lot of 'anti' types who try and force their opinions on others. I shoot and fish and have no qualms about killing and eating a rabbit or a trout. They are a natural harvest, live a natural life and taste good but the vegggie types can't cope with the fact that I enjoyed hunting it. I don't enjoy killing it but it's a fact of life. I'm sure farmers don't get gratification from sending stock to market but it's another fact of life.

    I once got drawn into a period of vegetarianism. I was involved with a girl who was moving in those circles. I didn't like it. Neither did I like the people I met who seemed hell bent on preaching their 'faith' and had huge chips on their shoulders regarding the killing of animals. Bunch of commies if you ask me! Their choice just not mine. They're very welcome to the lifestyle if that's what pleases them but it sticks in my craw when they try to force opinions.
     
  20. That-Crazy-Rat-Lady

    That-Crazy-Rat-Lady Well-Known Forumite

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    4,170
    Likes Received:
    3,971
    I've happily been a vegetarian for 10 years now, I dont try and convert anyone or guilt them, I live with my other half who is a massive meat eater, I cook meat for him no problem.

    I dont personally eat meat because I dont like the idea of eating 'flesh' also because often on some large scale farming the conditions animals face are not the best, in my life I try not to cause harm to anyone or anything (thats not too out there is it?) And to be quite honest its been 10 years and I just couldnt imagine going back, the taste, texture and idea of meat doesnt appeal to me.

    Yet I realise I am a massive hypocrite, I drink milk, eat cheese and IF I claim to be a vegetarian cus 'its mean to the animals' then I wouldnt eat dairy products as was pointed out earlier cows are impregnated more than would naturally be so and dont just produce milk for fun.
    But dear god who can live without cheese?

    I do try and ethically source the animal products I buy, but where does it end? No potato smiles cus they have faces?
    Just wanted to say that not all veggies are crazy (realises user name implies craziness) and there doesnt have to be a life style or 'type' of crazy dippy hippy that chooses not to eat meat!
     

Share This Page