Warm Banks.

tek-monkey

wanna see my snake?
Posted this on FB earlier and people seemed interested, so thought I'd share it here.

This £400 energy rebate thing seems like an amazing way to remove billions of pounds of taxpayers money and hand it straight to BP/Shel etc. shareholders?

Their costs didn't go up, just the price they sell for. The Ukraine/Russia situation didn't change north sea gas, it didn't change UK wind farms (which are now cheaper than ever before) it just changed the price they can get away with selling at. By paying off a bit of the bill rather than forcing them to sell it at a less extortionate mark up all we're doing is ensuring they make bigger profits, 400 quid across every house in the UK is £11bn quid just being given to energy companies. It's not fixing the problem, the bills will still be high after and we'll have to repay it all in taxes, it's just handing public money to private firms.

This isn't the cost of fuel, it didn't rise for the UK, less than 5% of our fuel is affected yet our prices rose by more than those who are over 50% dependant on Russia. We're not just being mugged, we're being farmed.
 

Chillybean

Well-Known Forumite
The last time we were fully dependant on UK gas was close to 2011, we buy a huge amount from Norway on the International market at market prices along with other countries who have seen Russia cut supplies to them. BP and less so Shell are big oil and less interested in gas supplies from the southern North Sea where the dwindling gas supplies are more owned by numerous smaller independent companies who have lower cost basis to make it viable. Currently thinking is 3-5 years of gas supply as most gas fields are full of water to increase production and maintain formation pressure to stop the sea floor subsiding. Both BP and Shells evolvement in the gas exploration in the North Sea is next to nothing compared to oil production in the north sector of North Sea. They regard the Southern North Sea area as only being economically viable for wind farms for the last few years as a result they will not largely benefit from rebate unless people use the money to drive more or fly more or use more petroleum derived goods. So tax payer money will largely being going to smaller companies and international gas supplier and less so than BP and Shell as you mention.
 

tek-monkey

wanna see my snake?
The last time we were fully dependant on UK gas was close to 2011, we buy a huge amount from Norway on the International market at market prices along with other countries who have seen Russia cut supplies to them. BP and less so Shell are big oil and less interested in gas supplies from the southern North Sea where the dwindling gas supplies are more owned by numerous smaller independent companies who have lower cost basis to make it viable. Currently thinking is 3-5 years of gas supply as most gas fields are full of water to increase production and maintain formation pressure to stop the sea floor subsiding. Both BP and Shells evolvement in the gas exploration in the North Sea is next to nothing compared to oil production in the north sector of North Sea. They regard the Southern North Sea area as only being economically viable for wind farms for the last few years as a result they will not largely benefit from rebate unless people use the money to drive more or fly more or use more petroleum derived goods. So tax payer money will largely being going to smaller companies and international gas supplier and less so than BP and Shell as you mention.
Still doesn't come from Russia though?

"In 2021 imports from Russia made up 4% of gas used in the UK, 9% of oil and 27% of coal. In 2021, imports of gas, oil and coal from Russian to the UK were worth a combined £4.5 billion. According to Eurostat, in 2020, imports from Russia made up 39% of the gas used in the EU, 23% of oil imports and 46% of coal imports."


EDIT: Using those figures the EU should be paying a lot more than us, whereas the opposite is true.
 

Chillybean

Well-Known Forumite
EDIT: Using those figures the EU should be paying a lot more than us, whereas the opposite is true. True but they are struggling to buy any gas on the international market as there is no excess supply and the Germans have acknowledged this by reverting back to mobilising coal power stations. UK has a fixed contract to fall back on for gas imports with the Norwegians. The Norwegians have been discussing with the UK the contract to allow for reduced export to the UK and increase to continental Europe over the winter. Ineos have at least 5 LNG carriers running from the US to Grangemouth which is probably one of the least efficient ways to transport gas to keep the UK supplied. Getting rid of the storage gas facility has proved to be a disaster.

I would agree, at one point Norway a good few years ago was virtually giving it away as they didn't have enough storage facilities yet the UK was tied in to fixed price system and we didn't see any real benefit or reduced prices.

My point is that there is essentially two types of operators one gas and one oil, Centrica fall in to the first and BP and Shell who fall in to the latter. While oil giants have made huge profits worldwide in fluid hydrocarbons it is the likes of Centrica BG who have taken a bigger advantage of the gas market and will benefit more from the £400, even if your not supplied directly you will be one form or another. If you want lower heating bills then protest to the government as even the duty dropped on fuel is one of the lowest in Europe, another rip off

While the likes of BP and Shell are making big profits, they do so across numerous countries as such any number of countries they produce in could also want a slice of the profit pot or virtually close them down as BP-TNK in Russia and Shell in Russia in the 2000's. There is a risk of removing their source of income and reducing the UK share of the profit pot. I think the most important question is when BP/Shell say they are investing in wind firms, it means they are actually investing in new development and not buying established wind farms which does not add to the UK green power supply. Both BP and Shell are huge players in the US GOM and I'm sure the US government and citizens would like to a seize a majority share of the profit pot given the amount they produce and profit from.
Hears a frightening comment is how do we pay off the national debt https://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk
 
Top