80mph motorways?

[flossietoo]

I'm one of the slow drivers who annoy everyone so much. Only on motorways - I'm fine everywhere else. I am completely terrified of motorway driving but once every couple of years or so, I have to use one for some reason. It's literally a white-knuckle ride and I have to keep reminding myself to take a breath. If the motorway bends or (worse) rises up in some kind of bridge nightmare, it is all I can do not to pull onto the hard shoulder and wait for someone to take me home. If other people start driving even faster, that's just going to make it more frightening.
Probably unsurprisingly, I can beat Shoes' single driving test fail. I failed mine five times. At the sixth attempt I started out by walking down the wrong side street with the examiner and failing to find my car. Then I carefully put my 'driving shoes' on and somehow managed to lace my feet together. I can't help thinking that he probably passed me so that I didn't come back.

 

[dangerousdave]

Flossie, it sounds like you really aren't confident enough to be driving on the motorway, and in my opinion because of this you really shouldn't drive on the motorway as you will become a danger to other drivers. However, I do have sympathy with you, and agree with Shoes that it's illogical that you do not receive any motorway driving as part of your driver training. If you'd like to improve your confidence you may find that taking a few lessons with a good driving instructor in motorway driving may help

 

[finnback]

It all smells of the same politics of the "24 hour" licensing law.

Government wish to raise revenues and impose certain laws of people related to drinking - Government has no hope unless there is a diversionary tactic - aha you can all drink 24 hrs - general public nods head in approval (11pm last orders was so draconian after all) new laws come in but hell, who opens 24 hrs but try getting a drink in a pub if your 17!

Government wishes to raise revenues and impose certian laws on people who go over the speed limit - Government has no hope in funding new cameras etc and imposing more laws on drivers as it won't go down too well - aha why don't we raise the speed limit on motorways, after all everyone goes at 80 anyway and it would be hard to prosecute that many people but not many go at 90mph. End result - Loads of people caught doing 83mph on gantry cameras at £40 a pop and can't really complain!

or something like that anyway

 

[flossietoo]

You are right, of course and I certainly try to avoid motorway driving at all costs. I did actually look into doing the advanced drivers course some years ago as I thought that it might give me a lot more confidence. The general hilarity that broke out when I stupidly mentioned this idea put me off. Unfortunately I had a very bad crash when I was first learning and it has definitely made it more difficult. In my first job after university they asked me at interview whether I could drive. I said, quite truthfully, that I was learning. I just didn't mention how LONG I had been learning. For the first six months in that job I got around by hitching. Nobody asked how I was reaching appointments and I didn't volunteer any info - I used to walk out of sight of the office and then hope for a fairly rapid lift. I'm totally fine now on the regular roads around here - I dash up and down the A518 and tut like mad at the old folk bimbling along and braking every time they see an oncoming vehicle.

 

[shoes]

I'm one of the slow drivers who annoy everyone so much. Only on motorways - I'm fine everywhere else. I am completely terrified of motorway driving but once every couple of years or so, I have to use one for some reason. It's literally a white-knuckle ride and I have to keep reminding myself to take a breath. If the motorway bends or (worse) rises up in some kind of bridge nightmare, it is all I can do not to pull onto the hard shoulder and wait for someone to take me home. If other people start driving even faster, that's just going to make it more frightening.
Probably unsurprisingly, I can beat Shoes' single driving test fail. I failed mine five times. At the sixth attempt I started out by walking down the wrong side street with the examiner and failing to find my car. Then I carefully put my 'driving shoes' on and somehow managed to lace my feet together. I can't help thinking that he probably passed me so that I didn't come back.

It sounds to me like you have serious anxiety issues when it comes to driving, I'd imagine with a small amount of (possibly even self) help you could boost your confidence on and off the motorway - have you done pass plus, for example?

It's not ideal but at least you recognise when you're going to be a danger to yourself/others and pull over as opposed to carrying on until you have a panic attack at the wheel - I'm sure there are plenty out there would would do just that and cause a pile up.

As for driving tests - well I failed mine first for hitting a curb/speeding and secondly for going too slow (although I was doing 40 in a 60 deliberately due to the fact it was raining so hard there was standing water on a hill, visibility was poor and I was in a vauxhall corsa, not famed for braking/handling/safety....well anything good really.

Couple of years later they changed the road to a bloody 40 anyway! (hill which runs from the crem down to the A518/Weston Road School.

 

[Trumpet]

Back to the OP, bring it on I say and bring A roads up to 70 at the same time.

 

[MarkyD]

I think car company's should fit decent brakes on all cars as standard. Problem is the price of that which stop's this from coming into effect. On the speed side I think it's a good idea TBH. Generally people driver over 80mph on the motorway anyway and it's normally the one's driving at the speed limit or slower that cause the congestion because there's too many people going quicker.

I mean look at the Autobahnen in Germany, no speed limit and the drivers are actually far better than ours. Less accidents and hardly ever any congestion. Majority of accidents in the UK are due to bad drivers or overly cautious drivers driving too safe (as stupid as that sounds) not mechanical faults.

Wouldn't surprise me if they raised the national 30mph to 40mph either in a lot of areas.

 

[shoes]

No, significantly higher in Germany in fact. Although that's nationally, not on the Autobahn vs. Motorways, so the figure could be very different in that case.

Source

I mean look at the Autobahnen in Germany, no speed limit and the drivers are actually far better than ours. Less accidents and hardly ever any congestion. Majority of accidents in the UK are due to bad drivers or overly cautious drivers driving too safe (as stupid as that sounds) not mechanical faults.

Source?

 

[dangerousdave]

I'm all for increasing speed limits where it's safe, but I would never condone a 40 mph speed limit in residential areas. If anything, i think it should be reduced to 20 mph in some parts (or maybe we could introduce variable speed limits dependant on the time of day)

and flossie, don't worry what anyone else says, i think it's a great idea for you to do pass plus, or an advanced driving course. Whilst I didn't do it I know my brother did and he was instantly more confident on the motorways, whereas I had to sort of learn it all myself

 

[MarkyD]

No, significantly higher in Germany in fact. Although that's nationally, not on the Autobahn vs. Motorways, so the figure could be very different in that case.

Source

I mean look at the Autobahnen in Germany, no speed limit and the drivers are actually far better than ours. Less accidents and hardly ever any congestion. Majority of accidents in the UK are due to bad drivers or overly cautious drivers driving too safe (as stupid as that sounds) not mechanical faults.

Source?

Their drivers are more disciplined in that neck of the world generally compared to ours. Germans, Austrians and the Swiss have far more advanced driving courses than we do in the UK. They are taught how to drive at such speeds. We are not. Their courses also cost, way more to do. Last time I saw they we're well over £1000. So it's best you pass first time.. Not only that the Germans have a general rule of 'slower traffic keep to the right'. Something I think we should adopt on our motorways (but to the left obviously). I know we have 3 lanes of speed, but you still get slow motorists driving in the 3rd lane, or people driving faster than the 3rd lane in the second lane... Giving way to the quicker drivers is much safer, I think, than blocking them and causing them to drive like a nutter weaving in and out of lanes.

There's no real link between more speed = more accidents. The only thing is that a fast accident = worse accident. This all boils down the drivers again, which is why if we're thinking about upping the speed limit it should be mandatory that driving courses should be more extensive for learners as standard, I think it's stupid we don't get taught proper car control in emergency situations, how to safely join A-Road & Motorway traffic, driving safely at the speed limit, driving in different weather conditions etc.. etc... on a normal course.

 

[shoes]

EDIT: In before Henryscat

Their drivers are more disciplined in that neck of the world generally compared to ours. Germans, Austrians and the Swiss have far more advanced driving courses than we do in the UK.

As in extra curricular or ones to get a licence at all? If the former then I suggest you hop over to the Institute of Advanced Motorists and see what they have to offer. Not to mention MSA, ADS, ADUK......

They are taught how to drive at such speeds.

Not to pass a test they're not.

We are not.

Agreed, but if you wish to learn there is no lack of choice.

Their courses also cost, way more to do. Last time I saw they we're well over £1000. So it's best you pass first time.

The way I understand it, in most European countries, it's mandatory to have lessons from a driving school (i.e. you can't just get your mum/dad/dog to teach you and go in for your test. How many people actually do that though? Personally I don't know of any of my friends who didn't have at least some professional tuition. http://www.der-fuehrerschein.net/fuehrerschein-kosten.html says it can cost up to £1700 Euros but this includes ALL vehicles, I imagine a car test is signifantly lower than that of a bus or a HGV.

Not only that the Germans have a general rule of 'slower traffic keep to the right'. Something I think we should adopt on our motorways (but to the left obviously). I know we have 3 lanes of speed, but you still get slow motorists driving in the 3rd lane, or people driving faster than the 3rd lane in the second lane... Giving way to the quicker drivers is much safer, I think, than blocking them and causing them to drive like a nutter weaving in and out of lanes.

No, that's been the law here since the dawn of time; no passing on the inside, no using the outside lane if you're not passing anyone. The system works very well right up to the point of congestion. Yes you get some idiots who sit in the middle lane passing no one etc. but I'd bet the hoodie I won off MyCult years ago that you get exactly the same thing in Germany.

There's no real link between more speed = more accidents. The only thing is that a fast accident = worse accident.

Definitely quote of the day. Sorry dude but you're so far wrong it's unreal. The likelihood of crashing increases massively with speed. You're exponentially incorrect.

This all boils down the drivers again, which is why if we're thinking about upping the speed limit it should be mandatory that driving courses should be more extensive for learners as standard, I think it's stupid we don't get taught proper car control in emergency situations, how to safely join A-Road & Motorway traffic, driving safely at the speed limit, driving in different weather conditions etc.. etc... on a normal course.

I was taught how to enter and exit fast dual carriageways, how to perform emergency stops, I drove at all limits from 10 to 70 mph, I also drove in several different sets of conditions. All in my usual driving lessons. The only thing I didn't learn was how to control the car in an emergency, but a one off lesson which may have been years before the skills are called upon with no warning whatsoever will be as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike.

 

[The Stafford Beast]

In my personal experience, I've seen more accidents on German autobahns that were more intense.

These include a Mercedes that had come off at a bend and stopped half-way up a mountain, and the autobahn getting closed and having to wait in a traffic jam for an hour while bodies were getting air-lifted off the tarmac and desperate people running over the other side of a field to go to the loo.

Not to say these sort of things don't happen on UK motorways, but I've not experienced any, despite more of my driving miles being driven in the UK; and there are plenty of jams.

 

[MarkyD]

Definitely quote of the day. Sorry dude but you're so far wrong it's unreal. The likelihood of crashing increases massively with speed. You're exponentially incorrect.

Still boils down to the driver's experience, if we suddenly lifted the speeding limits here in the UK to "drive as fast as you want" I'm sure you would see a more of an increase in accidents on our motorways compared to Germany. But even so, we'd have to make rules to compensate for many things, like increasing distances between cars etc... Because again, going back to my point, we're not taught well enough as drivers, we lack lane discipline. The only reason our motorways have less accident than most countrys is because of our speed limitations. We don't really need to learn how to control car's exceeding 70mph really.


But then you could argue " well yeah that proves that, more speed = more accidents " and I'd still say " Well, due to inexperienced drivers not being taught how to control their damn car, or having the right road attitude. Yes, it would. But it still boils down to the driver. " Yes we are given the choice of extra courses, but I don't think we should be. It should be core learning if they're going to be upping our speed limits.

Here's a silly argument: Look at F1 drivers, just because they drive quicker doesn't mean they crash every 2 seconds does it? They only crash because they're pushing the car to it's limit in a competitive situation making silly mistakes. If a driver is experienced enough they won't be stupid enough to drive their clapped out banger over speed limits it or they cannot handle. Bad drivers & bad cars are the cause of most accidents I'd say. Not so much speed.

The only thing I didn't learn was how to control the car in an emergency, but a one off lesson which may have been years before the skills are called upon with no warning whatsoever will be as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike.

I'd disagree, if you're trained how to control your car in different emergency situations, not just a one off lesson as you wouldnt lean anything, it would help you in some situations. I'm not saying you'd avoid every accident but it could help you avoid situations.

 

[wizzard]

Source?

HP thanks

 

[shoes]

Experience and tuition are very different though. Having only passed my test (for the second time :/ ) a year or so ago I can assure you I was taught to a very high standard (in fact I only got one minor and that was some bullshit mark made up to avoid giving away a clean sheet IMO - driving too close to the curb for 50 metres ????? **** off! ). In fact it's down to exactly what you said - discipline. If you are lazy/inconsiderate/arrogant/retarded then as soon as you get the pink card you drive like a pillock. No amount of tuition is going to cure laziness/selfishness.

If we really want to crack down on safe driving then we need to be tougher on bad drivers - I like the drink driving instaban for example, although I have no idea how effective it's been at stopping people getting caught, or re-offending. A guy a I work with got caught for the second time last December and is currently getting a lift to work with me whilst he has a 3 year driving break.

For me speeding is a two sided coin, it needs to be more enforced where it matters (towns, school etc.) and removed where it's purely for revenue (basically any given rural road with a gatso on it).

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not a nanny state loving anti speed freak - quite the opposite, I drive, frankly, ******* fast when the conditions suit.

I can't see any benefit from increasing the speed limit to 80 on the motorway - has anyone actually ever been done for doing 80 (or less) on the motorway apart from the variable speed areas near brum and the SPECS average speed cameras?

Downsides to increasing speed limit as I see it are simple:

More fuel used = more cost to us = more tax to the government
Journey times cut by circa 12% - 7 minutes in every hour? pointless
Faster wear rate on vehicles = higher maintenance costs
People already do 80 on the motorway (clock speed) anyway
Cost of implementation - the government will make this way more complicated and difficult than it needs to be and thus costing more
People who can just about manage 70 push to 80, crash and blow up taking out half of the people behind them too.

Benefits for the economy are strong, higher tax all round, more garages/tyre places getting used more frequently
Also I'm less likely to get prosecuted for the speed at which I already drive

Is this perhaps a ploy to allow Europe to sneak in some absurd 20mph limits whilst we're all rejoicing at our new 80mph motorway limit?
Will it be a trade off for putting SPECS (average speed cameras) along EVERY motorway mile? If so then I'm happy as we are, thanks.

 

[MarkyD]

Experience and tuition are very different though. Having only passed my test (for the second time :/ ) a year or so ago I can assure you I was taught to a very high standard (in fact I only got one minor and that was some bullshit mark made up to avoid giving away a clean sheet IMO - driving too close to the curb for 50 metres ????? **** off! ). In fact it's down to exactly what you said - discipline. If you are lazy/inconsiderate/arrogant/retarded then as soon as you get the pink card you drive like a pillock. No amount of tuition is going to cure laziness/selfishness.

If we really want to crack down on safe driving then we need to be tougher on bad drivers - I like the drink driving instaban for example, although I have no idea how effective it's been at stopping people getting caught, or re-offending. A guy a I work with got caught for the second time last December and is currently getting a lift to work with me whilst he has a 3 year driving break.

Spot on Shoes. This is exactly what I'm on about. Maybe our teaching courses should look at putting learners in controlled emergency situations where they have to pass a separate test before going for their full licence?

For me speeding is a two sided coin, it needs to be more enforced where it matters (towns, school etc.) and removed where it's purely for revenue (basically any given rural road with a gatso on it).

I totally agree with this.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not a nanny state loving anti speed freak - quite the opposite, I drive, frankly, ******* fast when the conditions suit.

I can't see any benefit from increasing the speed limit to 80 on the motorway - has anyone actually ever been done for doing 80 (or less) on the motorway apart from the variable speed areas near brum and the SPECS average speed cameras?

Other than getting places quicker I can't really see a real benefit. What our Government should be focusing on is, reducing the amount of traffic lights and poor road layouts and traffic systems.

Downsides to increasing speed limit as I see it are simple:

More fuel used = more cost to us = more tax to the government
Journey times cut by circa 12% - 7 minutes in every hour? pointless
Faster wear rate on vehicles = higher maintenance costs
People already do 80 on the motorway (clock speed) anyway
Cost of implementation - the government will make this way more complicated and difficult than it needs to be and thus costing more
People who can just about manage 70 push to 80, crash and blow up taking out half of the people behind them too.

Benefits for the economy are strong, higher tax all round, more garages/tyre places getting used more frequently
Also I'm less likely to get prosecuted for the speed at which I already drive

Is this perhaps a ploy to allow Europe to sneak in some absurd 20mph limits whilst we're all rejoicing at our new 80mph motorway limit?
Will it be a trade off for putting SPECS (average speed cameras) along EVERY motorway mile? If so then I'm happy as we are, thanks.

I can't really see it making much of a difference really, we all pretty much drive around that speed on the motorway anyway. If anything it just reduces our chances of being fined. Now if it was the law to drive 80mph and no slower 80mph then I could see it being a ploy.

 

[shoes]

Source?

HP thanks

Now I want a bacon sandwich.

Damn you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[shoes]

:words:

Ultimately I think we agree but for different reasons

 

[henryscat]

For me speeding is a two sided coin, it needs to be more enforced where it matters (towns, school etc.) and removed where it's purely for revenue (basically any given rural road with a gatso on it).

I totally agree with this.

A-roads have disproportionately high numbers of people killed and seriously injured for the amount they are used. The evidence is that reducing (and enforcing) a 50mph default speed limit rather than 60mph would significantly reduce the number of deaths, as the chances of drivers surviving in a collision at 50 are far far higher than at 60. The speed camera / revenue argument is to put it succinctly: bollocks.

Other than getting places quicker I can't really see a real benefit. What our Government should be focusing on is, reducing the amount of traffic lights and poor road layouts and traffic systems.

Journey times are usually more critical at peak times when traffic is much slower and a higher limit will make the grand total of zero difference. Active traffic management, enforcing lower limits at peak times has actually improved matters. As for poor road layouts - the majority of our towns have road layouts dating back centuries in some cases. How about demolishing historic towns and cities so traffic can average half a mile an hour faster? I'm sure it'd be worth it.

I can't really see it making much of a difference really, we all pretty much drive around that speed on the motorway anyway. If anything it just reduces our chances of being fined. Now if it was the law to drive 80mph and no slower 80mph then I could see it being a ploy.

Your chances of being fined driving at 80 on the motorway are pretty much negligible. If the limit is raised to 80 then under current practice people would have to be doing 90+ to be fined.

 

[henryscat]

Back to the OP, bring it on I say and bring A roads up to 70 at the same time.

Because there aren't enough people killed on A-roads as it is, so lets kill a few more?