Climate Change discussion thing

[Doctor]

There's a big discussion thing going on at the moment across Staffordshire called Our County, Our Climate, Our Choice©©© (or OC3). It's all about getting the views of people generally on climate change. There are discussion events all over the county but the one for Stafford is on Monday 14 January at Stafford Gatehouse from 6pm

Anyone can go along but for more information you can call 0845 366 6700 or e-mail info(at)staffsoc3.co.uk.

There is also a website where you can enter your views too - www.staffsoc3.co.uk

The event is for everyone and not just the hippies and tree huggers - we will all be affected by climate change so make your views known.

There's a little more info here
http://www.staffordbc.gov.uk/live/welcome.asp?id=6242
along with posters to download if you want to help publicise he event.

Cheers

 

[JediMindTrix]

Earth is heating up at both poles, so is alot of other planets [but they dont tell you that do they] i think the whole climate change thing is another one of the ruling elites fear tactics, they say climate change is because of us [how could it be when other planets are going through the same.]
And also they are going to use this [global warming] thing so the government can bring in more taxes!!!!!!!!! e.g. Green taxes

Think about it do some research and you will find out that other planets are going through exactly the same.

 

[cookie_monster]

Think about it do some research and you will find out that other planets are going through exactly the same.

please can you help me out with my research and cite your source for this claim as a starting point.

thanks.


x

 

[tek-monkey]

Heres how I see it:

We don't have enough historical data to prove or disprove that the current climate change is not part of a pattern. If it is, its irrelevant what we do. If it isn't, and we ignore it, we could quite easily destroy the planet for future generations. Therefore, the only outcome which is bad is we do nowt, and it was our fault all along. Doing something about it may or may not actually help, but produces no negative results.

Do nothing = 50/50 on screwing up earth
Do something = End result is either the same or better than now

Seems to me its not really a viable gamble? Of course we wont be here, but the generations to come may be completely shafted by us. If I could be bothered I could trawl the net and find irrefutable proof that global warming is both natural, our fault, or caused by a decline in the pirate population. None of us REALLY understand the evidence we are given, we're just believing what we choose to be right at the end of the day.


EDIT: See the graph halfway down this page, irrefutable I say!
http://www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/

 

[My Name is URL]

Climate change or not, is it not just good ethics to turn off lights when you don't need them, to recycle paper instead of chopping down the rainforests (where other animals live) etc?

People are so wasteful now and the more they have, they more they waste...

 

[Toble]

Please remember that climate change and global warming are two different things.
Climate change is a natural phenomenon that we have control over.
Global warming is an excuse to tax people.

 

[tek-monkey]

You know what, walking home last night I think it was cold enough to prove we need a bit more of this ere global warming TBH.

 

[JediMindTrix]

Think about it do some research and you will find out that other planets are going through exactly the same.

please can you help me out with my research and cite your source for this claim as a starting point.

thanks.


x

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/mars_ice-age_031208.html

there is a link to mars undergoing climate change.

 

[JediMindTrix]

Think about it do some research and you will find out that other planets are going through exactly the same.

please can you help me out with my research and cite your source for this claim as a starting point.

thanks.


x

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/mars_ice-age_031208.html

there is a link to mars undergoing climate change.

actually here is a better link it tells you about mars, earth, jupiter and saturn heating up.

http://www.thethoughts.co.uk/thoughts/solar-climate-change/

 

[gon2seed]

Surely the question is about the rate of climate change! This planet's mean temperature is in constant flux. But according to many people and governments, the current rate of upward change is unprecedented. If this is the case, it doesn't matter what is going on on Mars, Jupiter, or anywhere for that matter. We need to understand this uprecedented temperature change. If we conclude that it is caused by our own actions then it doesn't seem unreasonable to do something about it.

GK141054 sums it up for me, cutting down on waste and becoming more efficient, has many other benefits aswell, less air pollution, less landfill needed, less destruction of the environment, etc', etc'

If we take the conspiracy line, refuse to change, carry on regardless, and then are proved wrong, it will be too late to do anything, and if you are not a parent yet, let me tell you that is a scary potential legacy to leave for your kids.

I am prepared to make a leap of faith and do what I can, (though I know its not enough). If I am wrong, all I will have lost is a bit of face, but there will have been some positive benefits, so I think I can live with that.

I don't understand the aggressive defence of the right to unfettered consumption. People seem to glory in the creation of waste, and of wasting resources. I have colleagues who while at work, will leave lights on, turn heaters on full, waste hot water, and when I challenge them they say, "your not paying for it, what's the problem?" Setting aside the fact that technically I am, as a rates payer (and so are you!), if the theorists are right about humans affecting global warming, we will all pay, and so will future generations.

Do you know what really convinced me there was somethng in it? Bush. If the man who is prepared to go to war with Iraq to protect the profits of his cronies in the oil industry, finally gets dragged kicking and screaming into admitting there may be something in it, well ... that probably clinches it for me.

 

[henryscat]

Actually, here's a better link, just ever so slightly closer to reality

http://www.ipcc.ch/index.htm

actually here is a better link it tells you about mars, earth, jupiter and saturn heating up.

http://www.thethoughts.co.uk/thoughts/solar-climate-change/

 

[Toble]

I know its not really on-topic for this, but an associate of mine has signed up to one of those green energy companies and really believes that his power is coming from purely green sources, as opposed to the evil sources that our power comes from.

numpty.

 

[Doctor]

I know its not really on-topic for this, but an associate of mine has signed up to one of those green energy companies and really believes that his power is coming from purely green sources, as opposed to the evil sources that our power comes from.

numpty.

His power may be from anywhere but the money he spends will be either directly paying for green sourced power or paying for the construction of new renewable sources. Switching power companies to a green option is a very direct way of cutting carbon and making a statement to the industry that you want more green energy. The companies will tell you were they are sourcing their energy from and that will include if they are funding nuclear too.

we will all pay, and so will future generations

It used to be so much about future generations but it's now about us and people living around the world today. It's too late to stop some climate change. The polar ice caps are melting (the North West Passage was completly clear last summer), there are more dramatic, more frequent, more chaotic weather patterns.

Although I have been pushing for action for many years what really made me aware of how imediate tha problems are becoming is going to a meeting and finding out that government and councils have already drawn up 'adaptation' strategies. These are the plans for what we do as the climate changes - they are beyond trying to stop it and have accepted we are in for trouble - and that was several years ago.

 

[Toble]

I know its not really on-topic for this, but an associate of mine has signed up to one of those green energy companies and really believes that his power is coming from purely green sources, as opposed to the evil sources that our power comes from.

numpty.

His power may be from anywhere but the money he spends will be either directly paying for green sourced power or paying for the construction of new renewable sources. Switching power companies to a green option is a very direct way of cutting carbon and making a statement to the industry that you want more green energy. The companies will tell you were they are sourcing their energy from and that will include if they are funding nuclear too.

All this power company supply business is a con. It does not matter your you buy it from, your power is coming from the same sources as mine. Unless theres a second nation grid been installed when i wasn't looking.

The best these "green" suppliers can do is offset the carbon thing with tree planting trees and whatnot. Carbon is NOT BEING CUT. Its being OFFSET.

Oh, and is nuclear power green now? Wasn't it going to destroy us all a few years ago? Weren't the idiot masses protesting the building of the Sizewell plant?

 

[Doctor]

No, buying from 'green' energy companies boosts the green sector as they either have to purchase all or a percentage of electricity from green 'wholesalers' or invest in the building of new green capacity (mainly new wind turbines). Admittedly at present the rise in new renewable energy production is only keeping pace with our increased use of electricity but we being given the choice and should take it.

My point about nuclear is that you can choose a company that does or does not invest in nuclear depending on whether you are concerned about low carbon base load production and energy diversity or whether you are concerned about cheap energy or nuclear waste or terrorist attacks - it's up to you - that's the point of having a free market in energy. If we all strat buying green energy then more will be provided as it makes more economic sense. If we don't bother then they'll build new coal power 'cos it's sheap and easy (at least until carbon emissions are de-externalised)

 

[tek-monkey]

I'm sure I saw* somebody invented something that sat on the top of a coal power plants chimney, and turned most of the emissions into baking soda? Of course, who needs several tons of baking soda?

*May have imagined, its just as likely!

 

[Toble]

No, buying from 'green' energy companies boosts the green sector as they either have to purchase all or a percentage of electricity from green 'wholesalers' or invest in the building of new green capacity (mainly new wind turbines). Admittedly at present the rise in new renewable energy production is only keeping pace with our increased use of electricity but we being given the choice and should take it.

But, essentially, you are getting exactly the same as Mrs. Miggins next door. I may be being needlessly stupid here, but I cannot see how on earth this can possibly work.

Your power arrives via the National Grid. The billing process is farmed out to a broker. All the power comes from the same "pool". There is no magical switching box to say where you get your energy from.

I'm all for the building of windfarms. And hydro-electric, provided it doesn't screw up tidal habitats. And solar panels, but they're not much bloody use in England, unless our climate changes.

 

[henryscat]

If you look at it on a very localised scale then, yes, your electricity is probably being generated by coal in Rugeley. What matters is what goes on at a national scale. As more megawatts of wind turbines come on-stream, that's less MW of fossil fuel generated power that have to be fed into the national grid. Taking what Doctor said, that demand for electricity is rising, and effectively renewables are taking up that slack, this means that overall emissions from electricity generation shouldn't rise even though demand is - but only because people are buying "green electricity" which allows the investment to be made.

http://www.whichgreen.com/ is interesting as it shows just how much different providers are investing in renewable electricity generation. Ecotricity, at the top of the table, invests £275/year/customer in wind turbines. In aggregate, the more turbines built, the less fossil fuel generation is necessary, the less emissions there are. Since we live in a lovely free market economy, making a choice to switch to a supplier such as Ecotricity is an important one.

But, essentially, you are getting exactly the same as Mrs. Miggins next door. I may be being needlessly stupid here, but I cannot see how on earth this can possibly work.

Your power arrives via the National Grid. The billing process is farmed out to a broker. All the power comes from the same "pool". There is no magical switching box to say where you get your energy from.

I'm all for the building of windfarms. And hydro-electric, provided it doesn't screw up tidal habitats. And solar panels, but they're not much bloody use in England, unless our climate changes.

 

[Toble]

If you look at it on a very localised scale then, yes, your electricity is probably being generated by coal in Rugeley. What matters is what goes on at a national scale. As more megawatts of wind turbines come on-stream, that's less MW of fossil fuel generated power that have to be fed into the national grid. Taking what Doctor said, that demand for electricity is rising, and effectively renewables are taking up that slack, this means that overall emissions from electricity generation shouldn't rise even though demand is - but only because people are buying "green electricity" which allows the investment to be made.

http://www.whichgreen.com/ is interesting as it shows just how much different providers are investing in renewable electricity generation. Ecotricity, at the top of the table, invests £275/year/customer in wind turbines. In aggregate, the more turbines built, the less fossil fuel generation is necessary, the less emissions there are. Since we live in a lovely free market economy, making a choice to switch to a supplier such as Ecotricity is an important one.

Right. So, and correct me if i'm wrong, you are not buying green power but investing in the future of green energy production.

But i'm still allowed to smack people who believe in the magic power box, aren't I? Please.

 

[Toble]

I found this the other day.....

"The chances of our moderate climate changing soon to a prolonged cold spell, but not glacial, are high, Dr B J Mason, FRS, director of the Meteorological Office, suggested last night. With the caution of a man carrying ultimate responsibility for the precision of the official day-to-day weather forecasting methods, he added: 'There is no real basis for the alarmist predictions of an imminent ice age, which have largely been based on extrapolation of the 30-year trend of falling temperatures in the northern hemisphere between 1940 and 1965. Apart from the strong dubiety of making a forecast from such a short-period trend, there is now evidence that the trend has been arrested" - The Guardian, 18 March 1976


I draw your attention to "prolong cold spell", and ask you to recall what happened 3 months later.

"There is no real basis for the alarmist predictions" is a good bit too.