Dreams and New Dunelm Car Park- Watch Out!

[Alesto]

Hi All

Went to park on this car park on Greyfriars, as I normally do when I go to the gym and was stopped by one of the workman. He pointed out that on the new car park signs that even though you get 2 hrs free parking (which is all I actually read) you can't actually leave the car park ie You can only visit Dreams. He told me the traffic wardens are making a killing cos all they have to do is look thru the window of Dreams and see that is empty and tickets all the cars on the car park. £75 fine

You have been warned!

 

[My Name is URL]

I would have to wonder about the legality of this.... not saying that people should do it, but I wonder how enforceable the "cannot leave the carpark" bit is, and surely they would have to have video evidence of you leaving the car park, not purely look through the window of Dreams then ticket people... what if you are upstairs at the back? or if you are hiding behind a sofa (for testing purposes ready for when the salesmen come knocking) etc...

And thats before we even get into the "penalty charges" legality of it all....

 

[db]

not legal, not enforceable.. if you have a look at the ticket, you will notice that nowhere does it say the word "debt" - that's because you do not legally owe them anything, and so they are not allowed to use the word.. they are merely trying to force you to pay for a service..

it would be a bit like someone walking up to you as you sit in st. mary's church yard and bringing you a mcdonald's, and claiming that you must take it and that you owe them money for the service they have just provided..

see here for more details Private Parking Tickets are often invalid, don't pay.

this is true for all private car parks (i.e. any that are not owned by the council).. the missus got a ticket at pc world/tk maxx recently, and thanks to the above information just ignored it - she never heard anything about it again..

since it is not a debt, it cannot be passed to a debt collection agency, and it cannot have any effect on your credit rating..

 

[Alesto]

I am thinking that once Dunhelm opens it will be more difficult for the traffic wardens to tell who's in the shops (Dunhelm is having 2 floors as well I believe) or just using the car park so this maybe a short term problem for us folk.

 

[joshua]

It won't be wardens, just the usual thick necked types in a shabby van, the owners have "sold" the car park, this may backfire on them as hopefully people won't shop there as long as they employ these thugs to manage their car park.

 

[shoes]

Too bad they don't clamp, would be fun to grab a coffee and watch one of these chimps try to fit a clamp onto a car with no wheel arch gap (can't even get my little finger up there - oo er missus)

 

[henryscat]

not legal, not enforceable.. if you have a look at the ticket, you will notice that nowhere does it say the word "debt" - that's because you do not legally owe them anything, and so they are not allowed to use the word.. they are merely trying to force you to pay for a service..

Wrong.

They are relying on contract law. You enter a car park and by doing so accept the conditions of contract as set out. They can enforce their conditions of contract. However, the can only pursue compensation for losses they have incurred as a result of your breach. In most cases £75 or whatever the "fine" is set at is well in excess of any loss they incur in reality which is where they have difficulty enforcing. A court is likely to say the loss is about ten quid, hence they know it isn't worthwhile going after. That is not the same as them not having any grounds to come after you.

it would be a bit like someone walking up to you as you sit in st. mary's church yard and bringing you a mcdonald's, and claiming that you must take it and that you owe them money for the service they have just provided..

No, not really. I do have sympathy with retailers not wishing people to park on their car park for free then sodding off elsewhere to spend their money. A more relevant parallel would be: I'll just come and park on your drive because it happens to be quite handy, and no I don't care it's private property.

I object to the notion that by parking there and going elsewhere that you're apparently doing nothing wrong.

this is true for all private car parks (i.e. any that are not owned by the council)..
.

Nope. Railway car parks are private, but railway bye-laws allow for enforcement.

 

[shoes]

They are relying on contract law. You enter a car park and by doing so accept the conditions of contract as set out. They can enforce their conditions of contract. However, the can only pursue compensation for losses they have incurred as a result of your breach. In most cases £75 or whatever the "fine" is set at is well in excess of any loss they incur in reality which is where they have difficulty enforcing. A court is likely to say the loss is about ten quid, hence they know it isn't worthwhile going after. That is not the same as them not having any grounds to come after you.

This is very true - although there is the same net result - I've got loads of unpaid parking fines, even a few letters from debt collectors. All of them have been stored in the blue filing cabinet accordingly.

 

[Franklin_Delano_Roosevelt]

Whilst I have no sympathy with thuggish car park attendant tactics I do have some sympathy with at least the theory of what they are doing. That car park is there for and presumably paid for by the companies that rent those units (Dreams and Dunelm) to provide parking for people using their stores – that’s how they can afford to have a car park in the first place. That car park is not for people to use up spaces that genuine customers of said stores could be using because they want to avoid car parking charges on a pay and display somewhere else, skulk off the gym or do whatever.

Living near the hospital and having to suffer on a daily basis the unfair, inappropriate and downright selfish actions of people who work at the hospital and try and avoid the staff parking charges by clogging up residential streets I have first hand experience of this.

 

[Alesto]

Skulk off to the gym? There's never been any parking restrictions on this car park prior to my visit this morning and when I realised there was, I moved my car.

 

[My Name is URL]

(Dunhelm is having 2 floors as well I believe)

Yes it is, I was walking past at the weekend and saw it.

The wife and I were discussing why on earth Dunelm would choose to move from their current spot which seems to be choc-a-block with customers, and move to the graveyard site....

The only thing I could think of is that the landlords at their current spot are putting the rent up now they are attracting some good names and now they have refurbished the units....

 

[Alesto]

Apparently, their current spot isn't big enough.

 

[Toble]

There are some right shysters doing the car parks at the moment. Watch out near the Reynolds Centre. They recently ticketed one of our buses outside our garage, in one of our customer parking spaces.

 

[Franklin_Delano_Roosevelt]

Skulk off to the gym? There's never been any parking restrictions on this car park prior to my visit this morning and when I realised there was, I moved my car.

Hay look I was merely making the point that if you park in front of some shops/ in a shop car park and you are not using those stores then you can make the logical assumption that you shouldn't really be parked there irrespective of whether there is a sign up that specifically tells you one way or the other. The stores have every right to try and ensure that spaces are there for their customers to use, not to do so could damage their business as people may drive off and not use the shops if there is no where to park.

 

[Bob]

I once had a ticket in Stone, I parked in the car park at the back of the Co-op, directly under the sign for Panda Press, I assumed due to the big sign that it was OK to park there as that was where we were going, when I returned less than five minutes later I had a ticket. There was a very small sign that said Co-op employees only that I hadn't noticed - OK fair enough, I probably should have been paying a bit more attention.

The guy in Panda Press was really helpful he came outside with us and photographed the car park for us to appeal the ticket, on the grounds that there were no signs stating that tickets would be issued, or fines/penalties to pay. I actually went and handed the ticket back to the warden telling him I wouldn't be paying it. He didn't like it much and told me that his company would be in touch and would sent bailiffs in if we didn't pay it. That was about 10 months ago and we've received nothing from them.

 

[shoes]

I once had a ticket in Stone, I parked in the car park at the back of the Co-op, directly under the sign for Panda Press, I assumed due to the big sign that it was OK to park there as that was where we were going, when I returned less than five minutes later I had a ticket. There was a very small sign that said Co-op employees only that I hadn't noticed - OK fair enough, I probably should have been paying a bit more attention.

The guy in Panda Press was really helpful he came outside with us and photographed the car park for us to appeal the ticket, on the grounds that there were no signs stating that tickets would be issued, or fines/penalties to pay. I actually went and handed the ticket back to the warden telling him I wouldn't be paying it. He didn't like it much and told me that his company would be in touch and would sent bailiffs in if we didn't pay it. That was about 10 months ago and we've received nothing from them.

It must take a special kind of dickhead to want to be a car park warden.

 

[Trumpet]

I once had a ticket in Stone, I parked in the car park at the back of the Co-op, directly under the sign for Panda Press, I assumed due to the big sign that it was OK to park there as that was where we were going, when I returned less than five minutes later I had a ticket. There was a very small sign that said Co-op employees only that I hadn't noticed - OK fair enough, I probably should have been paying a bit more attention.

The guy in Panda Press was really helpful he came outside with us and photographed the car park for us to appeal the ticket, on the grounds that there were no signs stating that tickets would be issued, or fines/penalties to pay. I actually went and handed the ticket back to the warden telling him I wouldn't be paying it. He didn't like it much and told me that his company would be in touch and would sent bailiffs in if we didn't pay it. That was about 10 months ago and we've received nothing from them.

It must take a special kind of dickhead to want to be a car park warden.

Have to say mate, during my recent spell of unemployment I did briefly consider it rather than draw benefits.
Tricky call really, hated unemployment but couldn't see myself in that role. Two different sorts of pride I suppose, if you get my drift.

 

[That-Crazy-Rat-Lady]

Park on Homebase? They dont have any restrictions!
And I heard that Dunelm had been offered 3 years free rent at greyfriars (but obviously signed a lengthy contract) and the end of the day I bet like every other company thats struggling they just opted for cheaper rent and hoped the custom would follow them.
And maybe they might pull more activity down that end of town?

 

[Wormella]

For all the parking madness at Queens, Dunelm were never that busy (and there was always a leak in the roof) - People will travel to them, especially if they reinstate the fabric side of things. It's a bonus for me - it's often the only reason I trek to Queens, now it's only a slight detour on my way home for me..

 

[shoes]

Have to say mate, during my recent spell of unemployment I did briefly consider it rather than draw benefits.

Tricky call really, hated unemployment but couldn't see myself in that role. Two different sorts of pride I suppose, if you get my drift.

Good point, well made. I think I'd do the same, although if there were no targets I think I'd find myself to be a particularly pen shy warden lol