Gary McKinnon not to be extradited?

[tek-monkey]

In a remarkably rare event of not only having spine but also a little compassion, it seems Theresa May has stood up to the USA and said they can't have McKinnon:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/gary-mckinnon-may-blocks-extradition-us-113619046.html

Not sure if he'll face trial here yet, but I hope not.

 

[Hetairoi]

He is a computer hacker and should stand trial, let them decide whether he knew what he was doing was wrong or not.

 

[PeterD]

I agree, a trial should go ahead.

 

[John Marwood]

If it is believed a crime has been committed then any trial should take place here in the UK

Nothing is proven even if a suspect confesses

Confessions take place every day

Bless me Father

And I don't come from Wales

 

[Mikinton]

I too believe he should be tried, and by US authorities preferably in the USA.

In the meantime, let him have a computer to amuse himself, but remove his access to the internet.

 

[tek-monkey]

Depends what you call hacking, using default passwords to legacy devices left plugged into the biggest military network on the planet is not something I recognise as so. The alleged damages he caused are nonsense and 60 years for pointing out how crap their systems were is disproportionate to the crime, how is it worse than murder?

He's been under curfew for the last 7 years at least, and has to sign in at his local police station daily meaning he is not exactly free. Personally I'd say enough is enough, he's served out his penalty already.

 

[tek-monkey]

Let him have a computer to amuse himself, but remove his access to the internet.

He's not been allowed internet access since 2005.

 

[Mikinton]

Depends what you call hacking, using default passwords to legacy devices left plugged into the biggest military network on the planet is not something I recognise as so.

I'm not sure it matters how he came by the passwords; he was accessing systems without being authorised.

 

[John Marwood]

The US legal system murders people

They cangofuckthemselves

 

[My Name is URL]

Not sure if he'll face trial here yet, but I hope not.

I find this comment remarkable.... would you care to clarify it?

My personal view is if he is believed to have comitted a crime then he should be tried for it. I don't confess to know all of the details but from what I do know that trial SHOULD be in the US in my opinion... and i'm afraid I don't buy this "was only looking for proof of UFOs" bullshit...

Just listening to someone speaking about it on the radio - the decision not to extradite him seems to include the reasoning that if he was, he would commit suicide.... since when was that a valid reason not to bring someone to justice?!?! Must remember that one when I get done for robbing a bank.

 

[tek-monkey]

I'm not sure it matters how he came by the passwords; he was accessing systems without being authorised.

In essence there were no passwords, as they were set to system defaults that anyone can get. I don't for a second believe he deleted the files they say he did, but they don't have to provide any evidence until they have him in the US anyway and once there he's ****ed. Oddly if we want a US citizen extradited we must provide evidence first, regardless of their alleged crime. He's admitted to the access and to leaving a message along the lines of 'Your security systems are shit' on a pentagon computer. I'd call that a factual statement rather than one of cyber terrorism.

If you discount the alleged file deletions, which would have easily been recovered from a backup, what has he done that is worse than using someone else's wireless?

 

[tek-monkey]

I find this comment remarkable.... would you care to clarify it?

The possible punishment is in no way representative of the alleged crime, and he has already spent 7 years with severely reduced liberties. He also is not being extradited to a state he committed a crime in, unless I missed one, which mitigates the idea of facing trial where the computer itself was he 'hacked'. With differing state law that makes it a tad unfair to me, if he committed a crime against the country he should be tried above state level. Although in theory any country he routed through is one he essentially committed the crime in.

US citizens are entitled to have all evidence against them heard in a US court before an extradition can take place to the UK, and the US court can decide whether to take action locally or go through with the extradition. UK citizens are denied this right, and are expected to just accept US justice. I trust our justice system very little, but I trust theirs less. I suppose at least he's not black, so he has something in his favour.

 

[Mikinton]

In essence there were no passwords, as they were set to system defaults that anyone can get.

But it's not like finding a front door key in the street and luckily finding a front door lock that it fits. He'll presumably have had to have provided an Id ('SYSDBA' or 'SYSADMIN' or something) that would have given him privileges that he should not have had. He's pretended to be someone he isn't.

I don't for a second believe he deleted the files they say he did, but they don't have to provide any evidence until they have him in the US anyway and once there he's ****ed. Oddly if we want a US citizen extradited we must provide evidence first, regardless of their alleged crime. He's admitted to the access and to leaving a message along the lines of 'Your security systems are shit' on a pentagon computer. I'd call that a factual statement rather than one of cyber terrorism.

If you discount the alleged file deletions, which would have easily been recovered from a backup, what has he done that is worse than using someone else's wireless?

I wouldn't disagree with this. It would be interesting to know whether any action's been taken against those responsible for leaving the passwords as defaults in the first place. It may not be a criminal offense, but surely those responsible for this state of affairs should be hauled over the coals. I guess we'll never know.

 

[tek-monkey]

But it's not like finding a front door key in the street and luckily finding a front door lock that it fits. He'll presumably have had to have provided an Id ('SYSDBA' or 'SYSADMIN' or something) that would have given him privileges that he should not have had. He's pretended to be someone he isn't.

Even sky don't set their routers with default passwords nowadays, but I guess we must take into account that this was ten years ago and security was, as Gary put it, quite shit. I wonder how many others wandered through those networks and were not caught, it seems his leaving a calling card is what got him. I think the main issue here is embarrassment, they need to lock someone up for making them look stupid(er).

I wouldn't disagree with this. It would be interesting to know whether any action's been taken against those responsible for leaving the passwords as defaults in the first place. It may not be a criminal offence, but surely those responsible for this state of affairs should be hauled over the coals. I guess we'll never know.

We wont hear a thing unless it goes to trial in the US, and even then only if they chose to tell us. Its certainly gross misconduct though, if security is your job.

 

[PeterD]

interesting take on it

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2012/10/gary-mckinnon

 

[proactive]

I think it was the right decision not to extradite him, based on the psychiatric evidence that he might take his own life.

However, he should stand trial over here in my opinion and it will be for the court to decide if he is guilty of any criminal act. At the moment everyone is basing their opinion on the PR spin that has been put out by both sides and the true facts are yet to be established.

The fact that the US systems may or may not have been set to default passwords should not be a valid defence in my opinion, as he had no business allegedly being on there in the first place.

 

[John Marwood]

So

In conclusion

Babar Ahmad - not many votes here

Gary McKinnon - Daily Mail campaign so lots of votes here

Convenient timing dot no org

Back to you in the studio

 

[United57]

So

In conclusion

Babar Ahmad - not many votes here

Gary McKinnon - Daily Mail campaign so lots of votes here

Convenient timing dot no org

Back to you in the studio

Politics sadly. If we had sent Gary McKinnon and kept Barbar Ahmad, I could imagine Angry from Guildford!

 

[Arcadesteve]

This just highlights the problem of enforcing laws in an ever shrinking world. When you can commit a crime in America but actually be in Britain under whose jurisdiction does it fall under?

But also does this case not set a worrying precedent? If you are facing trial just threaten to kill yourself and an MP will step in. Just a couple of thoughts.

 

[Gramaisc]

It all gets very complicated and governments will generally do what suit them. Let's presume that there are Christian TV channels beamed from Sky's satellite and that these broadcasts enter the territory of Saudi Arabia, where they would be illegal - would we extradite Rupert Murdoch?

Some countries, such as France, Germany, Austria and Japan generally refuse to extradite their own citizens.