Gas fire V Electric fire

[Carole]

In the lounge we have a log burner which is lovely.

In the orangery we have no heating in there at all, no radiators, nothing. Its lovely to sit in there in the summer but its virtually unuasble in the winter. Its a bit of a waste because I love that room.

We were looking to just pop in an electric fire ( one of those that look like a log burner) but this would require putting a socket in, as there is no socket where we need the fire.
Then I looked at fires on the internet but not sure how many KW's I will need to heat the room. Most fires are 2KW but go up to 5KW.

The room is not huge but the height of the room (there is no ceiling as such, just glass) is the height of the house ....3 stories..and heat rises!!

So then I wondered would a gas fire be better? I think they are cheaper to run, but would a gas fire give us more heat...or enough heat?

 

[Gramaisc]

You'll need more than a socket for any single fire over 3kW.

 

[Carole]

You'll need more than a socket for any single fire over 3kW.

What does one need?

 

[Gramaisc]

What does one need?

It would need to be connected in permanently, like a cooker is.

 

[darben]

@Carole I've got one of those electric log burner fires but it is purely for effect, it is rare I'd put the heater on it.

There are some amazing calor gas stoves that look like burners on the market that would be ideal for what your describing, & save a fortune on getting any electrics or gas fitted.

Such as http://www.worldofcamping.co.uk/pro...=5c65f81d371439708ab3e5ea46f9ae1f&fo_s=gplauk

 

[Carole]

@Carole I've got one of those electric log burner fires but it is purely for effect, it is rare I'd put the heater on it.

There are some amazing calor gas stoves that look like burners on the market that would be ideal for what your describing, & save a fortune on getting any electrics or gas fitted.

But dont you have to buy calor gas? How do they work exactly?

I think I just want something easy that I can just switch on.

 

[Gramaisc]

But dont you have to buy calor gas? How do they work exactly?

I think I just want something easy that I can just switch on.

You can purchase refilled cylinders - avoiding the issue of piping gas to the fire and making the fire mobile.

 

[Carole]

You can purchase refilled cylinders - avoiding the issue of piping gas to the fire and making the fire mobile.

I dont neccesarily need the fire to be mobile.

I dont mind having it fixed in or piped in, if that is what it needs.

I just want something that when I feel like sittiing in that room, I can go in, switch something on and be warm as toast quite quickly.

So, not looking for the quickest, easiest, or even the cheapest option to install....

what would be the most efficient and cost effective in the long run?

 

[hop]

I use a real hybrid system for heating. A mix of coal, wood, kerosene, electric and butane.

By gas are you thinking butane or natural gas ?

There are some draw backs to butane heaters in that they release water, however in a leaky building like an onagery this is unlikely to be a problem.

We have 4*47kg propane bottles which are use for a combination boiler in the annexe and the hob.

I have found the best supplier for propane and butane are flogas, cheaper than calor and deliver the bottles as well. They sell butane fires and will do a deal with a fire and some bottles.
A big advantage of the butane fire portabilty and resiliency to power failures etc...

 

[Gramaisc]

I use a real hybrid system for heating. A mix of coal, wood, kerosene, electric and butane.

By gas are you thinking butane or natural gas ?

There are some draw backs to butane heaters in that they release water, however in a leaky building like an onagery this is unlikely to be a problem.

We have 4*47kg propane bottles which are use for a combination boiler in the annexe and the hob.

I have found the best supplier for propane and butane are flogas, cheaper than calor and deliver the bottles as well. They sell butane fires and will do a deal with a fire and some bottles.
A big advantage of the butane fire portabilty and resiliency to power failures etc...

If Carole has enough onagers, that might reduce the heating requirements a bit.

 

[hop]

If Carole has enough onagers, that might reduce the heating requirements a bit.

Plenty of biogas. Can't picture Carole using such a source of heat.

 

[Gramaisc]

Plenty of biogas. Can't picture Carole using such a source of heat.

Possibly part of a multi-faceted approach.

Drawing hot air back down from the higher zone can be effective.

 

[hop]

The wife talks lots of hot air, such a device could be useful.

 

[Carole]

I use a real hybrid system for heating. A mix of coal, wood, kerosene, electric and butane.

By gas are you thinking butane or natural gas ?

There are some draw backs to butane heaters in that they release water, however in a leaky building like an onagery this is unlikely to be a problem.

We have 4*47kg propane bottles which are use for a combination boiler in the annexe and the hob.

I have found the best supplier for propane and butane are flogas, cheaper than calor and deliver the bottles as well. They sell butane fires and will do a deal with a fire and some bottles.
A big advantage of the butane fire portabilty and resiliency to power failures etc...

Err...thanks @hop but I got a bit lost in all the technical jargon.

You know when you go to someones house and they just say "its a bit nippy, I'll just put fire on" then they get up, presss something, the fire comes on, lights up and then HEATS the room.

NOT, "its a bit nippy, let me go and see if I need to change a bottle".

Honestly, I really thought that my quesion was a simple one.
I thought that nearly everyone would have either a gas or electric fire ...a normal one not a bottle thing.

 

[Gramaisc]

Is there mains gas in Bednall?

You can pipe LPG around the house in a similar manner to mains gas and you can have a single large LPG tank, when it would behave like an oil tank, just needing topping up now and then.

An assessment of the heat input required is probably the place to start.

 

[hop]

Err...thanks @hop but I got a bit lost in all the technical jargon.

You know when you go to someones house and they just say "its a bit nippy, I'll just put fire on" then they get up, presss something, the fire comes on, lights up and then HEATS the room.

NOT, "its a bit nippy, let me go and see if I need to change a bottle".

Honestly, I really thought that my quesion was a simple one.
I thought that nearly everyone would have either a gas or electric fire ...a normal one not a bottle thing.

We have a sun room of 30 square metres with a double glazed roof. We use it from spring until autumn.
A previous owner installed a radiator but I wouldnt use it, may as well burn £20 notes in the garden to keep warm.
Such a room has poor K values and is not very energy efficient. Unless the radiator is on its own circuit with separate thermostats and zone values it will also mean that the room requires planning permission. Use of central heating rare works due to the huge difference in thermal properties. E.g. I normaly heat the house to 20 overnight it might cool down to 18 the sunroom on the other hand will be around 12 - assuming it is around 0 outside.
A radiator on a conventional house thermostat just wouldn't work since by the time the house had heated up to 20 the sun room might be 11 since it looses heat quicker.

Therefore you need to think about how often you will use this room between autumn and spring and how much you are prepared to spend it it is for occasion heating. The fact ours is unused for half the year doesn't bother me since day to day we use less than 1/4 of the rooms anyway.

If I was to consider heating the sunroom I would spend around £100 on a heater from flogas which comes with a bottle and is up to 4.2kw.
Using this I could gauge if this would be adequate for my heating needs and occasion use.
If I determined I was using the room frequently I would be able to determine what size system was required based on how much I was turning up the portable heater. E.g. I might install a little Aga wenlock stove. But that would be more the aestetic reasons since the portable heater would be fine.
Indeed the portable heater would always be useful in the event of a loss of power.

Your point about instant heat and changing bottles also seems rather at odds with the fact you have a wood burning stove. We have an 8kw stove in the lounge and it takes at least 20 minutes before you notice any heat, additionally you have to add extra fuel. I would say that a stove or open fire is actually a lot more hastle than changing a gas bottle. If the thought of changing a bottle bothers you then you get automatic change over valves.

 

[Rikki]

You could have a piped in gas fire but how would it be flued? From what I imagine the room to be like you would have to have either a room sealed fire or a flueless one.

Flueless would be easier to install but they don't have a very high heat output and need a air brick. They also shouldn't be a rooms primary heat source so wouldn't be appropriate in your situation.

Therefore a room sealed fire Would probably be your only option for a hard piped gas fire. But you would need to build a fire surround/hearth etc to fit it in/on.

I would think the electric hard wired route would be easier and cheaper. But like said anything likely to heat the room will need a new dedicated supply.

But your best option probably is a portable gas heater like suggested.

Another thing to consider is , is the room ever going to heat properly even if you put a heater in it. Lots of glass and a very high roof sounds to me like a room with virtually no insulation. If you give the room dimensions and a description of how it's constructed I can tell you how many kw any heater would need to be.

 

[hop]

Given the room is 3 stories high you could also consider a wood burning stove.
You could have a twin wall flue fitted - I would opt for the higher grade (904). Using such a flue should last for 25 years and more importantly would allow you to burn coal.

A stove over 5kw would need an air brick installing unless it was room sealed. I would try and avoid anything which would result in heat loss though.

Using coal you would get a good amount of heat quickly, but you might have accept that due to high ceilings you have to keep adding extra coal / smokeless.

 

[Gramaisc]

With any fixed combustion devices, other than the low-output flueless gas fires, you would have to organise an exit for the flue, which may be a problem in that structure.

 

[Carole]

To answer the questions.

Yes we have gas, we already have gas central heating.

The room is 14 x 10 feet. It was built with the house so 3 sides of it (brick walls) are within the house. One side is all glass and so is the roof.

We like to sit in the room of a weekend afternoon to read the papers. Sometimes, time permitting, in the week I might take my lunch in there and read for half an hour.

It is because we already have a log burner in the lounge that I DONT want one in this room. If I only have half an hour to spare then I dont want to make a fire and wait 20 mins for it to heat up.

I just want to switch something on and sit in front of it.

At the moment we just plug in a portable radiator which does take the chill off. However it doesnt look very nice and I wanted something more permanent.