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Leave or Remain?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by andy w, Jan 29, 2016.

  1. andy w

    andy w Well-Known Forumite

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    I think Roland implied that he wouldn't vote for England to leave the UK but would accept a democratic decision.
    I am still of the opinion that the UK has too much shared history and connections for it to be split.
     
  2. andy w

    andy w Well-Known Forumite

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    And I imagine many will say the same about Europe but the question is our relationship with Europe. People voted on staying in the common Market back in 1975 but it has evolved into the European Union. Ever closer Union is still the driving force of the European Project. If that's what you're happy with vote Remain but as Cameron's failure to achieve a meaningful re-negotiation shows, a new relationship with Europe can only be achieved by the UK voting to Leave the EU.
     
  3. kyoto49

    kyoto49 Well-Known Forumite

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    I loved the idea of an economic are to give us a strong market and all that entails. That's what we voted to join way back when, to join a Common Market!! How we ended up in the situation where the whole of Eiurope is entitled to come and live here and claim out benefits is a mystery to me and many others I assume. I'd like us to stay in a common market. I don't want unlimited immigrattion from the EU and the imposition of European laws. I'd like us to regain our sovereignty. That's not to say that we haven't benefitted from some aspects of the EU, but the downs massively outweigh the upsides!
     
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  4. tek-monkey

    tek-monkey wanna see my snake?

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    My gut instinct is to leave TBH, but I don't know enough to vote and don't trust anyone in power to tell me.

    If we were out of the EU would that help stop TTIP, or is that just a UK/US thing? I'll vote against whatever the people voting for TTIP go for.
     
  5. kyoto49

    kyoto49 Well-Known Forumite

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  6. basil

    basil don't mention the blinds

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    Have they all left CARICOM then ?......
     
  7. tek-monkey

    tek-monkey wanna see my snake?

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  8. John Marwood

    John Marwood I ♥ cryptic crosswords

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    Jamaica - youth unemployment 38% - Growth - one of the slowest in the world - crime rate - very high

    View from your sun bed - Marvellous
     
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  9. andy w

    andy w Well-Known Forumite

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    You could substitute Greece, Portugal or Spain for Jamaica. Maybe countries that are very dependent on tourism are fundamentally weak ( the same can be said of areas or towns in the UK that concentrate on tourism). What the struggling EU countries could have done was devalue their currencies to become competitive but being in the straightjacket of the Euro they have had to tough it out.
     
  10. John Marwood

    John Marwood I ♥ cryptic crosswords

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    And your human rights?

    Where do you think you would be if the UK hadn't been in the EEC/EU for the last 20 years?
     
  11. bpelectric

    bpelectric Well-Known Forumite

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    True but what happens in 3 or is it 5 years when Germany and the rest start handing out Passports to one and all, we really need control of our own border and Brexit is the only way out.Of course if we got control and the EU law making veto then I would rethink the situation.
     
  12. Gramaisc

    Gramaisc Forum O. G.

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    ...43 years..?
     
  13. Amerlan

    Amerlan Well-Known Forumite

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    I'm almost with Bart Simpson on this - "We're damned if we do and we're damned if we don't.
    That said, if we are going to leave the EU we'd better do it quickly, before Adolf Merkel and her cronies bleed us dry.
     
  14. Laurie61

    Laurie61 Well-Known Forumite

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    My instinct is to leave but I want to hear what the in/out groups have to say. I am hoping there will be useful information from both sides and not just the usual spin. Insofar as human rights are concerned we are already losing those even while still in the EU. :britain:
     
  15. John Marwood

    John Marwood I ♥ cryptic crosswords

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    "The Government is supreme and the country is all-encompasing, and all within it must conform to the ruling body."
     
  16. tek-monkey

    tek-monkey wanna see my snake?

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    I prefer to think our government are shite, the EU government is shite, and whilst I'm sick of taking shite off both I'd rather take shite off someone that has to walk the same streets as me than someone far removed. This goes just as well for London/EU as it does for local MP / Parliament, such a shame our MPs put parliament before us but I guess we do keep voting for them so its what we all secretly want?
     
  17. andy w

    andy w Well-Known Forumite

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    Tek Monkey pretty much sums it up for me. But I do share your concerns about how governments abuse their powers and I suspect the main they are able to do that is the First Past The Post voting system which is unrepresentative of votes cast. UKIP got nearly 4 million votes and were lucky to hold on to one seat and back in 1983 the SDP/Liberal alliance got 25% of the vote but only won 23 seats. This fact shouldn't be lost on Jeremy Corbyn. An out and out Party of the Left would win around 15 to 20% under a proportional representation voting system and would have real influence but under the present system a Left wing Labour Party achieving 25% would be annihilated.
    The irony of all this is that the European parliament is more representative to votes cast and has given UKIP the traction that they can't get at Westminster.
     
  18. Mikinton

    Mikinton Well-Known Forumite

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    I'm voting "remain", but I must admit I'm a lot less enthusiastic than I was 12 months ago and wouldn't be too bothered if the vote went the other way.

    Anyway, the latest poll (if you believe those sort of things) ....

    Remain = 54% : Leave = 36%

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Gramaisc

    Gramaisc Forum O. G.

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    Almost everybody that has spoken about it to me, in person, has been definitely for 'Out' - strange, rather like the 1975 referendum, which came out at 2:1 to stay in, yet almost nobody would admit to voting that way.

    Polls are strange things and the people that take part in them can be even stranger.

    The phone polls seem quite consistent, I wonder why?
     
  20. staffordjas

    staffordjas Well-Known Forumite

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    I remember my Commerce teacher saying in a lesson back in 1972 what a bad decision it would be for us to join the 'Common market' and like now , I also agreed them.
     

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