Leave or Remain?

Gramaisc

Gramaisc

Forum O. G.
John Marwood said:
Theresa May is the next Prime Minister at

6/1*
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She seems like the man for the moment.

We all need a functioning, coherent Tory party at the moment and she is rather less prone to mere posturing than a lot of the other options available.


* see later updates.



A quick check finds her to be a luke-warm Remainer who took little part in the campaign. She wants to leave the ECHR, which would follow a lot of the Leavers' main views. An 'ideal' compromise candidate? I would still expect, even require, a prominent Leaver to stand against her, preferably Boris.
 
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C

cj1

Well-Known Forumite
cannot see UK leaving the EU which will mean we will suffer this short term pain for no long term gains . as the government sits on its hands we are left with a situation where nobody knows what will happen next. decisions need to be made either way to give stability to the markets and our wider economy. the decision is 1 of 2 choices
  1. the people have voted to leave so we will leave in an orderly fashion.
  2. we acknowledge the will of the people but we have the final decision and we have decided to stay because of xyz
 
Gramaisc

Gramaisc

Forum O. G.
cj1 said:
cannot see UK leaving the EU which will mean we will suffer this short term pain for no long term gains . as the government sits on its hands we are left with a situation where nobody knows what will happen next. decisions need to be made either way to give stability to the markets and our wider economy. the decision is 1 of 2 choices
  1. the people have voted to leave so we will leave in an orderly fashion.
  2. we acknowledge the will of the people but we have the final decision and we have decided to stay because of xyz
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Even formally ceasing to be a member is not really leaving. The general plan* seems to have been to end up like Norway or, dare I say it, Iceland.

This really only removes agriculture and fishing from EU control, in large-scale terms.

Fishing zones would become UK's sole(!) responsibility again, but, if Scotland goes back, that leaves a bit of the Irish Sea, some of the North Sea and a triangle sticking out from the Scilly Isles.

Whatever happens now, we have not heard the last of this debate and possibly we never will.


* I have heard other plans involving words like "Commonwealth", but they seem unlikely to happen in the short term.
 
tek-monkey

tek-monkey

wanna see my snake?
Gramaisc said:
Even formally ceasing to be a member is not really leaving. The general plan* seems to have been to end up like Norway or, dare I say it, Iceland.

This really only removes agriculture and fishing from EU control, in large-scale terms.
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But that would make the pretence of any savings a lie, the pretence of curbing immigration a lie, the pretence of being free from pesky EU laws a lie, in fact I'm not sure why we'd even have had a referendum if that was the offer?
 
Gramaisc

Gramaisc

Forum O. G.
tek-monkey said:
But that would make the pretence of any savings a lie, the pretence of curbing immigration a lie, the pretence of being free from pesky EU laws a lie, in fact I'm not sure why we'd even have had a referendum if that was the offer?
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A competent democracy might have had a (fully binding) referendum, based on the actual terms available for Remaining and the actual terms available for Leaving.

It is much easier*, though, to do it this way.


* initially.
 
proactive

proactive

Enjoying a drop of red.
tek-monkey said:
But that would make the pretence of any savings a lie, the pretence of curbing immigration a lie, the pretence of being free from pesky EU laws a lie, in fact I'm not sure why we'd even have had a referendum if that was the offer?
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Yes.
 
A

andy w

Well-Known Forumite
Wasn't it the case that Corbyn became leader last year due to his opponents were lightweight and uninspiring? Has anything changed?
Stand out candidate(s) for the job?
 
John Marwood

John Marwood

I ♥ cryptic crosswords
andy w said:
Wasn't it the case that Corbyn became leader last year due to his opponents were lightweight and uninspiring? Has anything changed?
Stand out candidate(s) for the job?
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None

As sitting MPs

But that doesn't stop UKIP

So step forward John Cooper Clarke
 
Noah

Noah

Well-Known Forumite
Gramaisc said:
A competent democracy might have had a (fully binding) referendum, based on the actual terms available for Remaining and the actual terms available for Leaving.
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But then Britain is a constitutional monarchy not a democracy, even if we don't have a written constitution.
 
tek-monkey

tek-monkey

wanna see my snake?
Still don't see what's his fault, if he's at fault for not convincing people then I place more fault I place on the voters themselves for not researching.
 
Gramaisc

Gramaisc

Forum O. G.
tek-monkey said:
Still don't see what's his fault, if he's at fault for not convincing people then I place more fault I place on the voters themselves for not researching.
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I'm not saying that he is. I'm not convinced that him campaigning harder would even have had a beneficial effect for Remain. It could even have had the opposite result, it would have been pointed out regularly that he was for Out in the first referendum.
 
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