parking woes

[Toble]

two things.....

can anyone in the council confirm the results of the alleged survey that revealed that Stafford has only 25% of the parking spaces that it needs?

and...

is it really a coincidence that the uniforms of the new parking wardens have a green cap band and green epulettes (or however you spell it)?
are they modeled after the uniform of the old KGB Directorate of Border Guards?

oh... (damn, that 3 points)

1 Hour = 60 minutes, last time I looked. Not 54. So don't start writing your ticket out too soon. Especially if I'm stood behind you, waiting to move the care, and watching you waste the paper.

 

[Moley]

The gestapo wouldn't let me drop Mrs. Moley aka Curly Sue off at the main entrance to the college the ohter day, wasn't stopping, wasn't one of those chav boy racers who are obsessed with driving past there again and again and again and then double park.........but no I was told to leave immediately or get a ticket even though she was just trying to get to work. Jesus, little bit of power - straight to their arseholes - arseholes!

 

[henryscat]

More parking is the last thing Stafford needs. There's too much traffic piling into town as it is. People need to be getting out of their cars, not in them!!!

I don't know of any survey that suggests that there should be a four-fold increase in car parking within Stafford. As there's around 2,500 spaces in town, that would represent an increase to 10,000 (and where on earth would it go?), which in short would be insane and do nothing but create a great deal more congestion!

two things.....

can anyone in the council confirm the results of the alleged survey that revealed that Stafford has only 25% of the parking spaces that it needs?

 

[Toble]

More parking is the last thing Stafford needs. There's too much traffic piling into town as it is. People need to be getting out of their cars, not in them!!!

And the sky on your world is what colour?

 

[simon]

More parking is the last thing Stafford needs. There's too much traffic piling into town as it is. People need to be getting out of their cars, not in them!!!

And the sky on your world is what colour?

I think that you are encouraged to drive to town, the car park charges will soon be waived, and the bus prices are pretty steep IMO, so are you going to take your car or sit on a packed bus with all your christmas shopping??
My main problem with cars in Stafford is people driving their X5 down 3 streets to pick their kids up from school!

 

[henryscat]

More parking generates more traffic - Tesco's on Newport Road is a pretty good demonstration of that!

The number of car journeys on the roads is too high. 20% of them are less than a mile. Its not unreasonable to suggest that laziness plays a large part in that, and that many people could walk if they wanted to. Stafford's also reasonably flat and not difficult to cycle round either.

More parking is the last thing Stafford needs. There's too much traffic piling into town as it is. People need to be getting out of their cars, not in them!!!

And the sky on your world is what colour?

 

[henryscat]

You're right - if you own a car, then free parking (assuming you can find a space due to the additional demand created) is going to encourage use of the car. Unfortunately cash fares on the bus are getting ever steeper - bus fares have risen around 75% in real terms over the past 30 or so years, compared to more or less static motoring costs in real terms over the same period (and even counting recent fuel price rises, its still public transport users who've had the raw deal). Sadly the government are too scared to re-dress the balance by increasing motoring costs and reducing public transport costs - government policy currently allows rail operators to raise fares 5% above inflation each year, but strangely they won't apply that way of thinking to cars...

The school run is an easy target, although not without reason, as no doubt a huge number of car journeys to school are entirely unnecessary. But... It also detracts from the fact that many other short car journeys are equally unnecessary and could be made in other ways (or even not at all).

I think that you are encouraged to drive to town, the car park charges will soon be waived, and the bus prices are pretty steep IMO, so are you going to take your car or sit on a packed bus with all your christmas shopping??
My main problem with cars in Stafford is people driving their X5 down 3 streets to pick their kids up from school!

 

[Moley]

Sadly the government are too scared to re-dress the balance by increasing motoring costs and reducing public transport costs - government policy currently allows rail operators to raise fares 5% above inflation each year, but strangely they won't apply that way of thinking to cars

Thanks for that, I struggle as it is. How much should I be charged for using my car? You might be surprised to know that the majority of people use their cars not for making less than 1 mile journeys or dropping the kids off to school but for work. I work to live, not to drive my car. I wished I had a luxury of walking to work everyday or catching a bus however the economy, society we live in dictates that this is not feasible. I can't move to where I work because I work everywhere. The cost of motoring HAS gone up. The more you drive, the more you notice how expensive it is. I really wished I only had to worry about paying for bus fairs or indeed train fairs instead of a car. To alleviate the running costs I attempt to work around my wife who works in town and drop her off to work and pick her up again on my outbound and homeward journey, this reduces some of the running costs of her car.

I believe your thinking should be more balanced, oh by the way before you convey any more anti-clarkson views, I never owned a car until I was 29, I walked and cycled everywhere. However when you grow up things in life have a tendancy to change..........that's life

 

[Toble]

I've been searching for this... finally found it. Written in 1997 about Oxford, a valid argument.

"Instead of removing parking spaces, councils should provide as many as humanly possible. They chould analyse every last yard of yellow line and wonder whether it's absolutely necessary.
Stick up pay-and-display units. Charge us a pound an hour. It's OK. We don't mind.
If you make parking easy, you will automatically reduce congestion because you will not have cars going round and round the block anymore. Seriously, I cannot think of a more idiot use for a car than looking for somewhere to stop it.
But, of course, any town planner who admits this is talking himself out of a job, so over the coming years we are going to be treated to a series of scheme which are, quite simply, bonkers."

Yeah, it was JC.

 

[henryscat]

I'm not anti-car either btw, but the level of car use we have, which is ever increasing, is unsustainable. Its not an easy problem to sort out and there's no one answer.... That said... In terms of travel it is public transport users, who often don't have a car (25% of households have no access to a car) and who are generally on the lowest incomes, who have continually been hit with the biggest increases in the cost of travel. But because bus users aren't a particularly powerful political lobby, the government have by and large got away with it. In the past year alone in Stafford, cash fares on buses have gone up by around 10% - even with current fuel prices, a litre of fuel hasn't gone up by that in the last 12 months.

Thanks for that, I struggle as it is. How much should I be charged for using my car? You might be surprised to know that the majority of people use their cars not for making less than 1 mile journeys or dropping the kids off to school but for work. I work to live, not to drive my car. I wished I had a luxury of walking to work everyday or catching a bus however the economy, society we live in dictates that this is not feasible. I can't move to where I work because I work everywhere. The cost of motoring HAS gone up. The more you drive, the more you notice how expensive it is. I really wished I only had to worry about paying for bus fairs or indeed train fairs instead of a car. To alleviate the running costs I attempt to work around my wife who works in town and drop her off to work and pick her up again on my outbound and homeward journey, this reduces some of the running costs of her car.

I believe your thinking should be more balanced, oh by the way before you convey any more anti-clarkson views, I never owned a car until I was 29, I walked and cycled everywhere. However when you grow up things in life have a tendancy to change..........that's life

 

[henryscat]

Mr Clarkson might be a good at presenting telly programmes, but a transport planner he ain't.

The argument is a pretty rubbish one. Eliminating a very small proportion of traffic that is searching for a parking space will do sod all for solving congestion. Adding in parking will worsen congestion. You can't ignore the fact that the road network leading to, and within, any town centre has finite capacity.

Oxford has actually been very successful with its policy of restraining car parking in the town centre, in favour of very well used park and rides on the edge of town. There are two very successful bus operators in Oxford providing good levels of service, and levels of cycling are also high. And they didn't achieve all of that by following the Clarkson school of thought.

I've been searching for this... finally found it. Written in 1997 about Oxford, a valid argument.

"Instead of removing parking spaces, councils should provide as many as humanly possible. They chould analyse every last yard of yellow line and wonder whether it's absolutely necessary.
Stick up pay-and-display units. Charge us a pound an hour. It's OK. We don't mind.
If you make parking easy, you will automatically reduce congestion because you will not have cars going round and round the block anymore. Seriously, I cannot think of a more idiot use for a car than looking for somewhere to stop it.
But, of course, any town planner who admits this is talking himself out of a job, so over the coming years we are going to be treated to a series of scheme which are, quite simply, bonkers."

Yeah, it was JC.

 

[Toble]

Mr Clarkson might be a good at presenting telly programmes, but a transport planner he ain't.

The argument is a pretty rubbish one.

Ok.

As someone who sadly has to drive around Stafford for a living I'll point a few things out...

1. the proposed pedestrianation measures will totally screw up the flow around the town even more than it is screwed now.

2. tesco should never have been allowed to have that new junction on Newport Road. I think that a serious accident every 3 weeks (on average) proves that. mainly thats because the filter on the lights is screwed, but nobody takes any notice of the complaints.

3. Churchill Way / A449 / Rickerscote Road junction. Who the hell allowed that abortion to be built?

4. When out beloved council muppets tell us that Stafford has neither a parking nor traffic flow problem, which Stafford are they on about? I remember once the planner was on Stafford FM saying that there was no problem. I was sitting in the van on Gaol Square at the time. I'd moved 5 yards in 45 minutes.

5. Stafford needs the bypass to be completed. Opps, sorry, can't do that because there are now 2 new estates on the proposed route.

6. Derrington. Oh how those folks moan about proposed motorway widening. Ok. Everyone I know from Derrington works in Birmingham, and uses the M6 to get to work. F_cking NIMBY hypocrites. (that reminds me... I do love it when mobil phone mast protesters are being interviewed on the telly and their mobiles ring.

7. School Runs. I'm sorry, but there is no excuse for you blocking a major road with a Nissan X-Trail just because Tarquin is too fragile to walk to school. He's not going to be attacked by a paedophile. He's too ugly. Make the little shit walk.

8. Buses. Rubbish service, too expensive, and full of smelly pikeys. And old people.

9 Pollution. Fact: The exhaust fumes on a new Mondeo are actually cleaner than the air going in the front end.

10. Cyclists. Right, Next time I see a cyclist on the pavement I WILL chin them. And next time I see a cyclist on the road when there's a perfectly good cycle path to use I WILL cut them up (with car, not knife - but that it tempting). If I can follow the cycling rules in the Highway Code, when I'm on my bike, they bloody well can too.

11. Children. If you hit a child at 40mph, there is apparently an 80% chance that they'll die. If you hit one at 30mph, theres an 80% chance that they'll live. If the weren't pissing about in the road in the first place, it wouldn't be a problem, would it?

12. Taxis. All driven by maniacs. You'd be surprise by the miles/hours/accident rate though. Its very low.

13. Haven't I stopped yet? No. I'm on a roll. No, actually that's it.

 

[db]

I believe your thinking should be more balanced, oh by the way before you convey any more anti-clarkson views, I never owned a car until I was 29, I walked and cycled everywhere. However when you grow up things in life have a tendancy to change..........that's life

hear bloody hear.. i would gladly take a salary cut of a few grand if i could get a job in stafford.. unfortunately, i can't, which means i have to drive to lichfield/stoke/stone/birmingham/etc. every day just to earn a crust..

 

[Mrs M]

Mr Clarkson might be a good at presenting telly programmes, but a transport planner he ain't.

The argument is a pretty rubbish one.

Ok.

As someone who sadly has to drive around Stafford for a living I'll point a few things out...

1. the proposed pedestrianation measures will totally screw up the flow around the town even more than it is screwed now.

2. tesco should never have been allowed to have that new junction on Newport Road. I think that a serious accident every 3 weeks (on average) proves that. mainly thats because the filter on the lights is screwed, but nobody takes any notice of the complaints.

3. Churchill Way / A449 / Rickerscote Road junction. Who the hell allowed that abortion to be built?

4. When out beloved council muppets tell us that Stafford has neither a parking nor traffic flow problem, which Stafford are they on about? I remember once the planner was on Stafford FM saying that there was no problem. I was sitting in the van on Gaol Square at the time. I'd moved 5 yards in 45 minutes.

5. Stafford needs the bypass to be completed. Opps, sorry, can't do that because there are now 2 new estates on the proposed route.

6. Derrington. Oh how those folks moan about proposed motorway widening. Ok. Everyone I know from Derrington works in Birmingham, and uses the M6 to get to work. F_cking NIMBY hypocrites. (that reminds me... I do love it when mobil phone mast protesters are being interviewed on the telly and their mobiles ring.

7. School Runs. I'm sorry, but there is no excuse for you blocking a major road with a Nissan X-Trail just because Tarquin is too fragile to walk to school. He's not going to be attacked by a paedophile. He's too ugly. Make the little shit walk.

8. Buses. Rubbish service, too expensive, and full of smelly pikeys. And old people.

9 Pollution. Fact: The exhaust fumes on a new Mondeo are actually cleaner than the air going in the front end.

10. Cyclists. Right, Next time I see a cyclist on the pavement I WILL chin them. And next time I see a cyclist on the road when there's a perfectly good cycle path to use I WILL cut them up (with car, not knife - but that it tempting). If I can follow the cycling rules in the Highway Code, when I'm on my bike, they bloody well can too.

11. Children. If you hit a child at 40mph, there is apparently an 80% chance that they'll die. If you hit one at 30mph, theres an 80% chance that they'll live. If the weren't pissing about in the road in the first place, it wouldn't be a problem, would it?

12. Taxis. All driven by maniacs. You'd be surprise by the miles/hours/accident rate though. Its very low.

13. Haven't I stopped yet? No. I'm on a roll. No, actually that's it.

I have to agree with most of what you say especially point number 10. Cyclists are the first to complain that they have no respect on the roads and how dangerous the roads are for them yet do something for them and they completely ignore it. They have no right to complain about the roads where there are cycle paths.

As for point number 7. I totally agree about the inconsiderate parents who drop their kids off in the middle of the road but surely the the inconsiderate taxi driver who collects or drops off their fare in the middle of the road should also have been mentioned here.

Point 8, totally unfair to come down on the aged, totally agree about the rubbish service, too expensive and you forgot to mention maniac drivers.

 

[Astro Boy]

10. Cyclists. Right, Next time I see a cyclist on the pavement I WILL chin them. And next time I see a cyclist on the road when there's a perfectly good cycle path to use I WILL cut them up (with car, not knife - but that it tempting). If I can follow the cycling rules in the Highway Code, when I'm on my bike, they bloody well can too.

I have to agree with most of what you say especially point number 10. Cyclists are the first to complain that they have no respect on the roads and how dangerous the roads are for them yet do something for them and they completely ignore it. They have no right to complain about the roads where there are cycle paths.

As a cyclist I completely agree with the points here but please be careful. If I, as a cyclist, need to make a right turn I will personally put myself in the middle of the road / right edge of the lane as to be completely visible and to avoid impatient people from trying to squeeze their tonnage of steel through a rather small gap enclosed by unprotected flesh and oncoming traffic. There will also be a signal so its completely clear as to what I intend to do.

People that drive slowly in the cycle lane force cyclists onto the pavement. Oh, you don’t do that? It doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen! How about I start head butting off wing mirrors or ruining paintwork?

How about drivers, when wanting to pull out, using the cycle lane to edge their nose out into the traffic? This forces cyclists into the flow of traffic. Are you going to cut me up then?!

There are several sides to any situation but unfortunately we don’t see things as they are, we see them as we are. Any aggressive manoeuvre will be met with an aggressive response. In an inner city environment, cyclists can certainly catch up with you. If I'm cut up I WILL catch up with you and give you such an earful you'll wish you had remained calm and not picked on such an easy target.

A cyclist will probably be a lot fitter than you, pumped up with adrenaline and very angry.

Any erratic / impatient driving could result in a broken limb or death, compared to a dent in your bodywork or a second knocked off your journey time.

You trolled here slightly, and you got a f*cking reaction.

EDIT: sorry!

 

[Moley]

Coobeastie I understand your pain.

 

[Moley]

10. Cyclists. Right, Next time I see a cyclist on the pavement I WILL chin them. And next time I see a cyclist on the road when there's a perfectly good cycle path to use I WILL cut them up (with car, not knife - but that it tempting). If I can follow the cycling rules in the Highway Code, when I'm on my bike, they bloody well can too.

I have to agree with most of what you say especially point number 10. Cyclists are the first to complain that they have no respect on the roads and how dangerous the roads are for them yet do something for them and they completely ignore it. They have no right to complain about the roads where there are cycle paths.

As a cyclist I completely agree with the points here but please be careful. If I, as a cyclist, need to make a right turn I will personally put myself in the middle of the road / right edge of the lane as to be completely visible and to avoid impatient people from trying to squeeze their tonnage of steel through a rather small gap enclosed by unprotected flesh and oncoming traffic. There will also be a signal so its completely clear as to what I intend to do.

People that drive slowly in the cycle lane force cyclists onto the pavement. Oh, you don’t do that? It doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen! How about I start head butting off wing mirrors or ruining paintwork?

How about drivers, when wanting to pull out, using the cycle lane to edge their nose out into the traffic? This forces cyclists into the flow of traffic. Are you going to cut me up then?!

There are several sides to any situation but unfortunately we don’t see things as they are, we see them as we are. Any aggressive manoeuvre will be met with an aggressive response. In an inner city environment, cyclists can certainly catch up with you. If I'm cut up I WILL catch up with you and give you such an earful you'll wish you had remained calm and not picked on such an easy target.

A cyclist will probably be a lot fitter than you, pumped up with adrenaline and very angry.

Any erratic driving could result in a broken limb or death, compared to a dent in your bodywork or a second knocked off your journey time.

You trolled here slightly, and you got a f*cking response.

I used to be a semi-pro road cyclist in Ireland many moons ago - those of you who know me, please don't laugh too hard. When I moved to England I had every intention of keeping such an activity going however, when attempting to cycle in these fair parts of England I had so mainly near misses that I thought stuff this, being in the pub on a Saturday afternoon is far nore attractive than cycling into a head wind with pissing rain, then being clipped by a driver and picking tarmac out of my ass and knees the rest of the week. As Roy Castle said; "Dedication is all you need". (NOT). Car drivers and cyclists are always having pops and ding dings with each other......gets a wee bit boring after a while.

I think from my own point of view that all we need is not respect for one another but a little bit of consideration in our daily lifes and when we are pounding the roads of this country in whatever means of transport, then we can stop blaming each other when something goes wrong.

P.S. Being considerate also applies to those twats at the council before they start to pull up any more tarmac and implement any more wonderful schemes.

 

[Astro Boy]

road rage

I used to be a semi-pro road cyclist in Ireland many moons ago

Sexellenta!

Car drivers and cyclists are always having pops and ding dings with each other......gets a wee bit boring after a while.

I know, sorry but its still like a red rag to a bull for me...........

I think from my own point of view that all we need is not respect for one another but a little bit of consideration in our daily lifes and when we are pounding the roads of this country in whatever means of transport, then we can stop blaming each other when something goes wrong.

hear! hear!
I really do make a concerted effort to adhere to the rules of the road but like anyone elce there are fleeting moments when the finer points of the law / consideration go out the window. I'm also so the first one to put my hands up and admit to being in the wrong (I must admit every time I've had an actual accident its been partially or completely my fault! - which are few and very far between).

At the end of the day though, I'm not going to be treated with contempt and just let it go!

To coobeastie: I know you were just letting off steam and am sorry for tooting back! :manlyhandshake:

P.S. Being considerate also applies to those twats at the council before they start to pull up any more tarmac and implement any more wonderful schemes.

Oh yeah, wasnt this meant to be the crux of the thread?

 

[henryscat]

I have to agree with most of what you say especially point number 10. Cyclists are the first to complain that they have no respect on the roads and how dangerous the roads are for them yet do something for them and they completely ignore it. They have no right to complain about the roads where there are cycle paths.

The presence or not of an off-road cycle path in no way affects the right of a cyclist to cycle on the road. This was tested in court last year. I never cycle on off-road cycle paths because I largely find them a waste of time, and in some instances they are more dangerous than cycling on the road.

Point 8, totally unfair to come down on the aged, totally agree about the rubbish service, too expensive and you forgot to mention maniac drivers.

Rubbish in what way? I actually find the standard of bus driving in Stafford pretty good.

 

[henryscat]

1. the proposed pedestrianation measures will totally screw up the flow around the town even more than it is screwed now.

Proposed changes seem sensible to me. I look forward to them. Impact on traffic flows will be minimal.

2. tesco should never have been allowed to have that new junction on Newport Road. I think that a serious accident every 3 weeks (on average) proves that. mainly thats because the filter on the lights is screwed, but nobody takes any notice of the complaints.

Probably not, but when was the last time you saw a local authority prepared to risk a large amount of taxpayers' dosh going up against Tesco's barristers...

5. Stafford needs the bypass to be completed. Opps, sorry, can't do that because there are now 2 new estates on the proposed route.

No it doesn't. The vast majority of towns where bypasses are built end up back at square one within a few years - bypass diverts some traffic, freed up road capacity in the town then fills up with generated traffic. Overall result = more traffic. Find a town where that hasn't happened...

7. School Runs. I'm sorry, but there is no excuse for you blocking a major road with a Nissan X-Trail just because Tarquin is too fragile to walk to school. He's not going to be attacked by a paedophile. He's too ugly. Make the little shit walk.

Yep, there is too much travel to school by car. It isn't the only journey purpose where cars could be used less though

8. Buses. Rubbish service, too expensive, and full of smelly pikeys. And old people.

"Rubbish" - in what way? The network in Stafford is perfectly adequate for anyone working in town, working 9 - 5 - which is a high proportion of jobs. Day returns are expensive for the distance travelled, but weekly/monthly tickets bring the cost down and are probably cheaper than driving. I find buses in Stafford generally reasonably pleasant to travel on. They're certainly a lot nicer than Travel West Midlands' efforts in Brum.

9 Pollution. Fact: The exhaust fumes on a new Mondeo are actually cleaner than the air going in the front end.

Urban myth. So, our towns would be less polluted if everyone drove Mondeos....? Combusting fuel = air pollution. It is not benign. Ford (or anyone else) cannot magic it away.

10. Cyclists. Right, Next time I see a cyclist on the pavement I WILL chin them. And next time I see a cyclist on the road when there's a perfectly good cycle path to use I WILL cut them up (with car, not knife - but that it tempting). If I can follow the cycling rules in the Highway Code, when I'm on my bike, they bloody well can too.

I don't cycle on the pavement, but I can understand why people do when there are drivers with your attitude. So what if there's a cycle path? It has no bearing on a person's right to cycle on the road. In most instances cycle paths are of poor quality, can only be used at slow speed, and can be potentially more dangerous than cycling on the road.

11. Children. If you hit a child at 40mph, there is apparently an 80% chance that they'll die. If you hit one at 30mph, theres an 80% chance that they'll live. If the weren't pissing about in the road in the first place, it wouldn't be a problem, would it?

And the problem with keeping within the speed limit is....?

12. Taxis. All driven by maniacs. You'd be surprise by the miles/hours/accident rate though. Its very low.

I find it odd that taxi drivers aren't subject to drivers hours' like PCV drivers are. Both are responsible for conveying passengers. Neither are taxis subject to the same maintenance requirements that buses are, yet both cover high mileages.