Stafford's Traffic Lights...

[Mr X]

But one of the key issues highlighted by that article is that traffic lights are the cause of the problems where people believe they have a right of way at a green light. Traffic lights are effectively stopping people from concentrating on driving and using common sense. People rely on lights to decide when it is safe to go and don't think about pedestrians, cyclists etc who may be on the junction.

Buses are another issue altogether. The council tried to make it easier for buses to pull out by removing laybys and making buses stop in the road. Personally I think this has had a negative effect. I think twice about letting buses out in some places because I know just up the road they will stop again and I will have to wait behind them whilst some old biddie finds her bus pass (although not all passengers take ages, of course!). If buses could still pull off the road then I would be much happier letting them pull out.

Speed limits can often have a negative effect by creating a target speed. Instead of drivers deciding what is safe at the time, drivers will often travel at the speed limit 'cos the sign says they can. On some roads it is incredibly difficult to know what the speed limit is anyway because it changes so often. If the signs were removed would drivers not be able to decide what is a safe speed by themselves?

 

[Mr X]

Interesting fact of the day... did you know that a toucan crossing isn't named after a bird, but instead is called that because "two can" cross at once (i.e. pedestrians and cyclists).

I did actually! But do you know why a pelican crossing is called a pelican crossing (or to be more accurate, a pelicon crossing)?

Also, why a puffin crossing?

 

[henryscat]

Puffin = Pedestrian User-Friendly Intelligent crossing. (Puffins replaced Pelicans, and have detectors to extend lights if people still on crossing, I think they also cancel the pedestrian call if people cross before the lights have changed)

 

[zakkwylde87]

Mr X you have saved me a hell of a lot of time by typing exactly what i think on all occasions and in all situations. Plus one from me

 

[henryscat]

People rely on lights to decide when it is safe to go and don't think about pedestrians, cyclists etc who may be on the junction.

IIRC traffic lights are safer for cyclists than roundabouts where people are making all their own decisions.

Buses are another issue altogether. The council tried to make it easier for buses to pull out by removing laybys and making buses stop in the road. Personally I think this has had a negative effect.

This is one where drivers have shot themselves in the foot. Removing laybys has helped buses. If you ever catch a bus in Stafford or watch one trying to get out of a layby you'll see how many ignorant gits drive past not letting it out. Personally I'd sympathise with bus drivers adopting more of the Birmingham bus driving style - indicate and pull out very shortly afterwards....

I think twice about letting buses out in some places because I know just up the road they will stop again and I will have to wait behind them whilst some old biddie finds her bus pass (although not all passengers take ages, of course!). If buses could still pull off the road then I would be much happier letting them pull out.

Not letting buses pull out is just ignorant and inconsiderate. Regardless of if they're in a layby or not. The delay to your journey of letting a couple of buses out is seconds. Buses don't stop at all stops nor do you drive round the bus route (or maybe you do.....) so you're not going to keep stopping at all. The delay to the bus of people not letting it out of stops, multiplied by the number of passengers on board adds up to a lot. Why is their journey less important than yours?

Speed limits can often have a negative effect by creating a target speed. Instead of drivers deciding what is safe at the time, drivers will often travel at the speed limit 'cos the sign says they can.

That isn't due to the existence of a limit, its an inability to exercise judgment of what's safe within that limit.

If the signs were removed would drivers not be able to decide what is a safe speed by themselves?

Quite simply: no. And road deaths would rocket.

 

[shoes]

Have to admit as a keen road cyclist I much prefer traffic light junctions to roundabouts. The roundabout by the old B&Q that joins onto silkmore lane scares the sh*t out of me every time I go near it.

Cycle paths round there are pretty good though

 

[zakkwylde87]

If you were a cyclist i could definately understand the roundabouts being like soemthing from your worst nightmare. Yet again Henrys Cat i disagree with your thoughts on road use! Nevermind!

 

[henryscat]

Have to admit as a keen road cyclist I much prefer traffic light junctions to roundabouts. The roundabout by the old B&Q that joins onto silkmore lane scares the sh*t out of me every time I go near it.

I've got used to it now!! The interesting bit is doing Lichfield Road right into Silkmore Lane because you need to get out of the cycle lane early. Just take the centre of the RH traffic lane on approach and its fine.

Cycle paths round there are pretty good though

The mandatory lane on Lichfield Road is OK. The shared use paths are rubbish...

 

[tek-monkey]

As a motorcyclist I echo the roundabout thing, for some reason 42%* of all drivers turn into complete window lickers at roundabouts, at least I assume it is their own saliva that obscures their view of the people already on the roundabout. The amount of people who have looked me in the eye then pulled out regardless when I'm within a few feet of them is scary, if I drove a car they'd be a LOT more accidents around this town. My right of way? Then your BMW is getting smacked in pal!


*Approximately...

 

[Trumpet]

As a motorcyclist I echo the roundabout thing, for some reason 42%* of all drivers turn into complete window lickers at roundabouts, at least I assume it is their own saliva that obscures their view of the people already on the roundabout. The amount of people who have looked me in the eye then pulled out regardless when I'm within a few feet of them is scary, if I drove a car they'd be a LOT more accidents around this town. My right of way? Then your BMW is getting smacked in pal!


*Approximately...

+1
And the numpties that enter a three lane roundabout on the left, veer across into lane two and sometimes three then back across to the left just to 'straighten out' the roundabout with no regard for where anyone else is going or who is already alongside them.

 

[My Name is URL]

Agree about cycling on roundabouts... but thats a culture thing I assume and the fact hardly anyone cycles in this country.

I disagree that not letting busses out is selfish. If you are in traffic then fair enough but why should anyone slam on their breaks to let them out... when I learned to drive I was told by my driving instructor to wait for a gap I could pull out into not indicate and expect the world to stop for me... are bus drivers above these rules?

Oh and when was the last time a bus let anyone out... you get what you give and on the whole bus drivers give sweet FA.

 

[db]

I disagree that not letting busses out is selfish. If you are in traffic then fair enough but why should anyone slam on their breaks to let them out... when I learned to drive I was told by my driving instructor to wait for a gap I could pull out into not indicate and expect the world to stop for me... are bus drivers above these rules?

not wanting to defend bus drivers, because i definitely fall into the "treat bus drivers with disdain and try and beat them at every challenge" category, but you hardly have to "slam on [the] brakes".. you see a bus ahead, you think "i'll let him out if no-one else does before me", and so you brake accordingly, giving a little flash of the headlights as appropriate..

as i say, i'm not saying i do this, but at least i will admit to the fact that i don't because i'm selfish and don't try and blame it on inappropriate braking requirements lol..

yes, driving instructors tell you to wait for a gap, but they also tell you to feed the wheel, never to flash your lights or otherwise indicate to other motorists, etc.. real life driving requires more thought, judgement and consideration than what you learn in your lessons!

Oh and when was the last time a bus let anyone out... you get what you give and on the whole bus drivers give sweet FA.

well, exactly.. unfortunately, it's a vicious circle: bus drivers hate other motorists because they get no respect from them and no-one lets them out, which means they have no choice but to bully their way out and cut up other motorists, which makes everyone hate them more, etc. etc.

 

[henryscat]

I disagree that not letting busses out is selfish. If you are in traffic then fair enough but why should anyone slam on their breaks to let them out... when I learned to drive I was told by my driving instructor to wait for a gap I could pull out into not indicate and expect the world to stop for me... are bus drivers above these rules?

Not letting buses pull out is selfish, its "my journey is more important than yours" syndrome. No one is saying "slam on your brakes". Highway Code says let buses pull out: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069858 (rule 223). If you're driving properly then you'll be anticipating what's happening ahead, so if there's a bus stationary expect it to put its indicator on and anticipate it might want to pull out. You can then safely slow down to let it do so.

Oh and when was the last time a bus let anyone out... you get what you give and on the whole bus drivers give sweet FA.

When on the bus I see drivers letting people out, in the car I've been let out by a bus. When cycling they are generally amongst the most patient drivers and pass with plenty of room.

 

[tek-monkey]

The more people don't let buses out, the longer the bus journey, the more people decide fook it lets drive, the more cars there are on the roads, the longer your journey takes due to increased non-bus traffic. Simples!

I'm obviously a very courteous driver, I let anyone out. I even let a BMW out once, he stalled in his confusion! This may be down to me realising how easily I'd die should a collision occur though.

 

[My Name is URL]

Not letting buses pull out is selfish, its "my journey is more important than yours" syndrome.

Ah so the busses journey and that of its passengers is more important than mine.... i smell double standards.

Its like when someone at the front of a freeflowing line of traffic goes out of their way to stop and let someone out when 5 or 10 cars behind there is a space that they could of got out in anyway... but by braking to let that person out the person at the front makes all of the other cars brake and then causes a backlog...

That is selfish....

 

[My Name is URL]

Henryscat... are you (or is someone in your family) a bus driver or bus user per chance?

 

[db]

Not letting buses pull out is selfish, its "my journey is more important than yours" syndrome.

Ah so the busses journey and that of its passengers is more important than mine.... i smell double standards.

i think the idea is that all journeys are equal (with obvious exceptions), so we should all help each other out.. obviously, if letting a bus out is genuinely going to cause inconvenience or dangerous driving, no-one would expect that..

being polite on the road doesn't mean you are judging someone else's journey to be "more important".. what's with all these "important" journeys anyway, surely we're just talking about going to and from work, or nipping to asda, or whatev's?? lol

 

[henryscat]

Ah so the busses journey and that of its passengers is more important than mine.... i smell double standards.
.

Nothing of the sort.

But consider: in the car, let a bus pull out once or twice in your journey = only a few seconds to you. Say the bus makes 10 stops in its journey to load passengers, it takes an average of 20 seconds a stop to pull out = 3 minutes 20 seconds. If there's 15 passengers on ths bus (could be a lot more), then 200 seconds x 15 = 3,000 seconds = 50 passenger delay minutes caused by people not letting the bus out.

The effect on the bus of not being let out is hell of a lot more significant than the effect on a car slowing to let the bus out once, even if you take the figure before its multiplied across the passengers.

 

[henryscat]

Henryscat... are you (or is someone in your family) a bus driver or bus user per chance?

If you'd read my earlier post you'd know the answer to that.

I use buses in Stafford regularly. I also drive and cycle.

I've no idea what the relevance of the question is though.

 

[My Name is URL]

I've no idea what the relevance of the question is though.

Really?

Nothing to get offended over.