Staffordshire County Council Office buildings - Wrong choices?

Staffs County Council

A few posts under my belt
the contractors came back and said that all work would definately be complete on site by Christmas.
Remedial work on the outside of Staffordshire Place is progressing well and is being completed at the contractor’s expense, at no cost to Staffordshire council tax payers. We know it's frustrating that this work is taking longer than initially expected, and it will now continue into the New Year, but this is in part because we are insisting that the contractors deliver to the highest standard. Please bear with us.

The offices in both buildings are fully operational and working well, and our new headquarters are already delivering the savings we promised. By bringing staff together from 17 old and outdated buildings, Staffordshire Place is saving £250,000 a year, while new ways of working are helping us save a further £370,000 in print and paper costs - a total annual saving of £620,000.
 

tek-monkey

wanna see my snake?
Remedial work on the outside of Staffordshire Place is progressing well and is being completed at the contractor’s expense, at no cost to Staffordshire council tax payers. We know it's frustrating that this work is taking longer than initially expected, and it will now continue into the New Year, but this is in part because we are insisting that the contractors deliver to the highest standard. Please bear with us.


If only you'd stipulated you wanted a high standard in the first place ;)
The offices in both buildings are fully operational and working well, and our new headquarters are already delivering the savings we promised. By bringing staff together from 17 old and outdated buildings, Staffordshire Place is saving £250,000 a year, while new ways of working are helping us save a further £370,000 in print and paper costs - a total annual saving of £620,000.

And do you still have to maintain the old buildings that are yet to sell? If so, at what cost per year? I'm also frankly amazed at the savings gained from print and paper related costs, dare I ask the initial set up fee? Most systems I have seen are either very expensive to implement or only start to deliver true savings several years into the lease, so I'm quite interested in this aspect. Also, what percentage saving is this overall on your print/paper costs?

Sorry to be cynical, but I just find it hard to trust figures I haven't looked over myself!
 

Gareth

Well-Known Forumite
Staffs County Council what is the printing saving this year, as I here there has been a huge overspend by staff in the 6 figure region due to colour printing?
 

Withnail

Well-Known Forumite
a total annual saving of £620,000.
Is that a net overall saving, taking into account the capital cost of the new building, or simply an apparent revenue saving..?
If we assume that the capital costs of the building are not included in the figure of £620,000 saved annually - then a quick going over with the old calculator tells me that those actual savings will kick in a little after 2073.

By which time i anticipate being quite properly dead, so hey-ho.
 

Franklin_Delano_Roosevelt

Well-Known Forumite
Remedial work on the outside of Staffordshire Place is progressing well and is being completed at the contractor’s expense, at no cost to Staffordshire council tax payers. We know it's frustrating that this work is taking longer than initially expected, and it will now continue into the New Year, but this is in part because we are insisting that the contractors deliver to the highest standard. Please bear with us.

The offices in both buildings are fully operational and working well, and our new headquarters are already delivering the savings we promised. By bringing staff together from 17 old and outdated buildings, Staffordshire Place is saving £250,000 a year, while new ways of working are helping us save a further £370,000 in print and paper costs - a total annual saving of £620,000.

OK, lets take each of your key points in turn:

"The remedial work is progressing well" Define well? To anyone looking on this whole thing seems to be an utter shambles which has dragged on for years. I can't remember exactly as it was so long back but I think that the first spade was put in the ground around 2007/08 ish and you are now telling us that this is now going to go into 2013. In the US they re-conconstructed the whole of Southern California in six weeks following a catastrophic Earth Quake. I would argue that was remedial work "that progressed well"

The second point I would make is that not you, or anyone else has told us WHY it is taking so long, you have merely confirmed that yet another promise that both SCC and the contractors made that the build would be completed by Christmas has been broken. I could hazard a guess as to why it is taking so long, every time I go through the build (which is pretty regularly) I see countless workmen having a chat, smoking, drinking tea i.e pretty much doing anything other than building. As you are rightly ensuring that the contractors are picking up the tab for this work (to be honest I would be staggered if you were doing anything but) and they are therefore making no money it could be argued that there isn't much incentive for them to crack on. They are highly unlikely to be alarmed by being called to another "showdown" meeting with SCC over the slow progress whereby they say they'll finish by a certain date, you confirmthis in the press and the date is missed again.

I didn't in my question ask about cost or savings but as you have bought it up we'll deal with that. My esteemed colleagues above have pointed out some finer messages about how finance works which you seem to have convieniently missed from your calculations. Put simply, if I pay to have some solar panels fitted to my house and they cost £10K, having worked out that they will save me £1K a year on my energy bill they will therefore be paid for and giving me all my energy saving in year 10 when the capital outlay is recovered. What was the Capital outlay of Staffordshire Place again?
 

tek-monkey

wanna see my snake?
Staffs County Council what is the printing saving this year, as I here there has been a huge overspend by staff in the 6 figure region due to colour printing?

I was under the impression that modern printers don't really cost that much more to print in colour than in black? The only way I can see the savings alleged here is if everyone previously had an inkjet printer on their desk and now they use a centralised printing system. The college has recently done this*, but I am under the impression the outlay versus savings mean it will be a few years before we really save anything substantial. We are of course saving, we're saving lots, but it is obviously offset by the cost of the devices installed. This is why I find the £370,000 saving in one year so staggering, unless the usual outlay was at least several million per year.

* Please be aware I am not involved in this project at all, I have never broached this subject with anyone officially. My personal opinion is simply based on conversations with other staff and as such should not be treated as fact. I know I say this every time, but I don't trust the 'reporters' that read this forum not to quote me out of context.
 

tek-monkey

wanna see my snake?
Put simply, if I pay to have some solar panels fitted to my house and they cost £10K, having worked out that they will save me £1K a year on my energy bill they will therefore be paid for and giving me all my energy saving in year 10 when the capital outlay is recovered.

Of course if you pay upfront you lose interest that money would have gained for you in the bank, so it will be a little longer. Heaven forbid you get credit to pay for the panels, as this will put you into year 15 at least once their interest is added. Is Stafford Place paid for outright, or is a PFI agreement involved?

Not knocking your post Franklin, you did say put simply, I'm just wondering how far out of scope the cost savings mentioned really are.
 

Franklin_Delano_Roosevelt

Well-Known Forumite
Of course if you pay upfront you lose interest that money would have gained for you in the bank, so it will be a little longer. Heaven forbid you get credit to pay for the panels, as this will put you into year 15 at least once their interest is added. Is Stafford Place paid for outright, or is a PFI agreement involved?

Not knocking your post Franklin, you did say put simply, I'm just wondering how far out of scope the cost savings mentioned really are.

I agree, I was just trying to break it down simply. I think the cost of Staffordshire Place was something like £40M. I doubt SCC would have been able to have put all of that money up and so would have had to borrow a proportune of the capital at market interest rates which may make the actual final bill more like £60M. As said by others previously many of the building that they have moved out of are not "savings" as yet either as they haven't disposed of many of these assets yet and are therefore still liable to a ceratin degree. In this context for SCC to keep peddling this "we are making massive savings by moving to Staffordshire Place" argument is totally disingenuous.
I am suprised that one of the local papers hasn't done an Freedom of Information request to get all of the particulars and work this out and expose the untruths.
 

tek-monkey

wanna see my snake?
I always thought reserves were there to pay for the services needed when the funding was tight? Surely it means that the councils did not need all the money they have been getting in the past, if they could keep reserves? And therefore, to my very simple brain, they should not be cutting any services until these reserves are depleted? In an ideal world they'd never have been overpaid in the first place, so they shouldn't moan if they have to dip into it!

I think that they have to keep a certain amount of money back in reserve though to help with covering one off unexpected events, things like flooding, terror attacks etc.

Thats fair enough, but the report said many had doubled their reserves in 5 years. That to me still says overpayment from central government? Wouldn't the reserves be better held centrally anyway, and allocated as needed? Chances of a disaster hitting every area of the country at the same time are pretty slim.
 

Gramaisc

Forum O. G.
I always thought reserves were there to pay for the services needed when the funding was tight? Surely it means that the councils did not need all the money they have been getting in the past, if they could keep reserves? And therefore, to my very simple brain, they should not be cutting any services until these reserves are depleted? In an ideal world they'd never have been overpaid in the first place, so they shouldn't moan if they have to dip into it!



Thats fair enough, but the report said many had doubled their reserves in 5 years. That to me still says overpayment from central government? Wouldn't the reserves be better held centrally anyway, and allocated as needed? Chances of a disaster hitting every area of the country at the same time are pretty slim.
Careful! You're beginning to sound like Eric Pickles.
 

Franklin_Delano_Roosevelt

Well-Known Forumite
I always thought reserves were there to pay for the services needed when the funding was tight? Surely it means that the councils did not need all the money they have been getting in the past, if they could keep reserves? And therefore, to my very simple brain, they should not be cutting any services until these reserves are depleted? In an ideal world they'd never have been overpaid in the first place, so they shouldn't moan if they have to dip into it!



Thats fair enough, but the report said many had doubled their reserves in 5 years. That to me still says overpayment from central government? Wouldn't the reserves be better held centrally anyway, and allocated as needed? Chances of a disaster hitting every area of the country at the same time are pretty slim.

Would you trust George Osbourne to keep the Local Government pot of money centrally and not blow it on a tax cut for Millionaires??
 

Staffs County Council

A few posts under my belt
Thanks for everyone’s opinions and questions – you’re definitely a lively bunch on here.
As I said when I introduced myself this is a very different way of working for us and I’m sure it’s going to take a while to get the hang of it.
Maybe I should explain what I can and cannot do on here. First my time is quite limited – I may only be able to pop in for ten minutes once or twice a week, so apologies when there is a delay in responding.
In some instances my personal access to information may be restricted. Sometimes all I can provide here is information which I have been given for public distribution, and in most cases I won’t be able to expand or comment on it further.
Where I see a topic and know I have information which may help within the time I have available, I will. I won’t always have an answer for every question, but I may be able to direct you to the information you need.
In the case of the Staffordshire Place building work I’ve already posted all I have to provide. If you have specific concerns why not raise them with your elected county councillor? They are in the best position to follow up any questions on your behalf. You can find out who the county councillor is for your area here: http://moderngov.staffordshire.gov.uk/mgMemberIndex.aspx?bcr=1
 

Stevo

Active Member
As an employee in the building and a tax payer at first I was skeptical of the cost savings Staffordshire Place 1 & 2 would have

I agree that the outside of the buildings do look terrible and seem to have gotten worse as the months have passed, I'd rather not comment on the contractors themselves as I don't know how they are being managed or what roles/duties they have been assigned but the progress does seem very slow. On the inside nearly all of the teething problems that I recall are gone, though the swipe barriers to get in/out are still a massive pain!

In terms of printing, many of the old buildings did have deskjet/inkjet and old laserjet printers which used different cartridges/toners and constantly broke down due to age. The new printing solution is made up of MFD's scattered around each floor in each building, most are the same make/model so the consumables are the same and the processes behind ordering toners/paper will have been greatly optimised. The speed of the devices is improved, more functionality (scanning for example) removing the need for several devices on each desk, the power usage /standby will bring energy savings too. As these devices are located away from desks staff do consider what they print instead of just clicking print and reaching for the printer that used to be a few feet away.

In terms of the way staff work, the new offices have been a major part in helping with efficiencies, promoting new ways of working and improving how we go about our daily duties. The meeting room facilities are superb, the kitchen and restrooms are brilliant and my workspace is a lot more pleasant so I personally feel I am a lot more productive and happy. All of the colleagues I need to liaise with are nearby so I rarely need to travel.

When you actually start to think about the cost savings from reducing the number of buildings, consider how expensive it will have been keeping all the old buildings and rented units (such as the ones on Staffs Tech Park) operational with a few hundred staff (if that) in them. Many of the buildings I worked in had terrible heating systems and were single glazed meaning you needed to wear a hat and coat to stop shivering. Not having caretakers for each site, a single staff pool of cleaners, fewer managed network connections of which many were totally unsuitable, modern heating and not having to perform constant building maintenance (although the new building has had its obvious issues) I can certainly imagine that centralising staff into two new buildings will be a huge cost saving for many years.

When calculating how long it'll take to break even on the £40m figure that is banded around, however it was funded, it's not just the yearly savings but the money generated from selling old assets, along with the figures that are often ignored like staff sickness, traveling, expenses, postage, office moves, telephone calls (now using VOIP) etc.

I'm surprised thought that as a public organisation SCC have not been more forthcoming with an actual breakdown of figures so maybe someone needs to submit a FOI request to get all the data into public view?
 

Jonah

Spouting nonsense since the day I learned to talk
But how many of those assets have actually been sold?
 
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