Strike 30/11/11 re changes of the LGPS Local Government Pension scheme

[Tinkerbell]

No actual firm offer has been made - just a principle of changes. I know someone who has been attending the meetings at London.

The fact still remains if you pay a pension contribution of £150.00 per month, you will be expected to pay an additional £75.00 a month. This additional money is not going to the pension fund, but is going to the government to raised an additional £900 million to offset council tax funds and a future bank melt down. It is a secondary tax on public sector employees.

A friend of mine was actually in London to vote on the industrial action, post the result, having discussed the givernment's latest dialogue. He told me not one person clapped or cheered when the ballot result was read out. This is the last resort and not what anyone wants.

 

[shoes]

lol public sector workers......

I have had a pay freeze this year and I don't even have a pension, company or otherwise.

Seriously, if you don't like the awesome deal you actually have then I'm sure there are literally millions chomping at the bit to take your job from you.

(This isn't aimed at you tink or tek - but the people voting for strike action in general).

You should seriously think about getting some kind of pension, else you might find it difficult to have a decent standard of living when you are old.

I totally agree, I have been thinking about this a lot recently. I think once I've bought a house with my inheritance next year I will be putting the money I currently spend on rent straight into a pension scheme. It is worrying though that I have almost nothing saved for the future :/

 

[John Marwood]

lol public sector workers......

I have had a pay freeze this year and I don't even have a pension, company or otherwise.

Seriously, if you don't like the awesome deal you actually have then I'm sure there are literally millions chomping at the bit to take your job from you.

(This isn't aimed at you tink or tek - but the people voting for strike action in general).

You should seriously think about getting some kind of pension, else you might find it difficult to have a decent standard of living when you are old.

I totally agree, I have been thinking about this a lot recently. I think once I've bought a house with my inheritance next year I will be putting the money I currently spend on rent straight into a pension scheme. It is worrying though that I have almost nothing saved for the future :/

If you put your money into a pension scheme you will at the same time fund the people running it, and where relevant its shareholders

Pension schemes have their assets in the stock market as a long term investment

Have you considered putting your money directly into the stock market thus saving you a vast percentage of your pension from going in commission,service charges and the like?

If you choose the FTSE 100 and spread it broadly you are in fact investing in global businesses rather than UK businesses

If you beliee the UK is the place to place your money then go for the FTSE 250

 

[tek-monkey]

Despite their current state I still think bricks and mortar are the way to go. At worst you can live in your investment, saving a large outgoing. Unsure on the buy to let market anymore, but get your own paid off sharpish.

 

[John Marwood]

Despite their current state I still think bricks and mortar are the way to go. At worst you can live in your investment, saving a large outgoing. Unsure on the buy to let market anymore, but get your own paid off sharpish.

Trouble with that is you cant sell of the lounge when you need a little cash

And then later bedroom number two when you need a little more

 

[dajoja]

All I have to say is try working in the private sector and get a reality check. No pay rise in years, crap pension even though I work for global company.

Oh yes and our taxes go to pay the Public Sector pensions - Marvellous. NOT!

 

[tek-monkey]

I'm sorry, but that is something I do take offence at. Everybodies taxes fund the public sector, including those who work in it. Please explain how employee contributions could work in any other fashion?

Besides which, if its the land of milk and honey why aren't you working in the public sector?

 

[dajoja]

I'm sorry, but that is something I do take offence at. Everybodies taxes fund the public sector, including those who work in it. Please explain how employee contributions could work in any other fashion?

Besides which, if its the land of milk and honey why aren't you working in the public sector?

There is no need to take offence, I just have a diffrent opinion than yourself.

 

[tek-monkey]

Its something you always hear though: "I pay your wages!". You can't have a public sector, unless you pay them. We could always scrap the lot, and outsource it all to Indian callcentres instead? You'd still have to pay them though.

 

[dajoja]

I am not saying scrap taxes. What I am saying is that in the Private Sector we are getting equally screwed over, if not more so.

I do not believe people in the Private Sector will support these strikes like the union's were claiming yesterday.

 

[Mikinton]

All I have to say is try working in the private sector and get a reality check. No pay rise in years, crap pension even though I work for global company.

Oh yes and our taxes go to pay the Public Sector pensions - Marvellous. NOT!

Don't worry, matey. I'm sure it's a mere blip and the private sector will be soon be back at the top salary league tables like they were in the 80s and 90s, leaving public sector workers with just their pension to look forward to (cough).

And just to clarify, I doubt whether your taxes will be going to pay my public sector pension. Some schemes have been managed properly, including employers not taking pension holidays in order subsidise rates (council tax) reductions.

 

[henryscat]

I am not saying scrap taxes. What I am saying is that in the Private Sector we are getting equally screwed over, if not more so.

The answer is not to screw everyone else over, it is to defend and improve private sector pensions. The average civil service pension is just over 4k a year - hardly excessive.

When the going is good though, those in the private sector quite happily trouser their profit related pay, bonuses, share options and whatever else.

If everyone ends up penniless in retirement, the state will still end up paying through benefits and pension credits.

 

[Nicedave]

The most worrying part of these propoasls is the fact the Government is refusing to honour payments to already retired members

If they persuade enough people to resign from the scheme they will have to cut the pensions of those already in receipt of one

 

[db]

The fact still remains if you pay a pension contribution of £150.00 per month, you will be expected to pay an additional £75.00 a month.

are you sure on this? cos i work in the public sector, currently paying £155 into a pension, and when i looked into it the additional contribution was nowhere near an extra £75/mo net.. i can't remember how much it was, but it wasn't enough to put me off staying in the LGPS.. and it certainly wasn't enough to make me vote "yes" on this ridiculous strike..

obviously, if i'm wrong, i'd love to be pointed in the direction of actual figures! i blates don't want to be paying an extra £75 a month :/

i've been thinking of deferring payments for 3 years anyway (regardless of these changes) - sticking my pension contributions into an ISA for 3 years (on top of the £100 i already squirrel away each month) i'd have £10k by the end of it, so i figure the short-term benefits of doing that would far outweigh the minor knock my pension would take from dropping out for 3 years!

 

[tek-monkey]

As we don't know what is offered, we can't agree to anything.

Unison said the government’s most recent offer on pensions, to increase the cost ceiling and give a fairer deal to those within 10 years of retirement, was a ‘marked improvement’.

However the union said that it was yet to receive a scheme specific offer and therefore it has authorised industrial action on 30 November.

Dave Prentis, general secretary of UNISON said: We have no offer in either the local government or the health pension schemes that we can put to our members.

So for now I'm still in, but we'll see what happens. I won't be striking, I still believe in sorting yourself a better deal if the need arises. This may well mean heading back to the private sector, but until all figures are in I don't have a clue.

 

[phildo]

The fact still remains if you pay a pension contribution of £150.00 per month, you will be expected to pay an additional £75.00 a month. This additional money is not going to the pension fund, but is going to the government to raised an additional £900 million to offset council tax funds and a future bank melt down. It is a secondary tax on public sector employees.

Those figures can't be right. Based on the info circulated by the teachers pensions scheme the contributon increases vary from nothing for trainee teachers, an increase from 6.4% to 7.0% for teachers on less than £26k, and then increase a bit more at each level, so a teacher on £40k-£75k would face 8% instead of 6.4%... but even the superheads on £112k+ only face an increase from 6.4% to 8.8% which is an increase of 37.5% which is less than the 50% increase you have suggested ????

and as for complaining that the additional money is going into general taxation.. why shouldn't it? It is general taxation that many of the public sector schemes rely on to be able to fund the penions currently provided!!!!!!
If you want a world where the pension contributions remain exclusively in the scheme to fund the pensions, then the public sector needs to either pay more in or take less out on retirement as there is a shortfall.. that's the whole point of these reforms.

 

[tek-monkey]

There isn't a shortfall in the teachers pension, it was restructured in 2007 and is doing fine. Why change it again?

 

[phildo]

I am not saying scrap taxes. What I am saying is that in the Private Sector we are getting equally screwed over, if not more so.

The answer is not to screw everyone else over, it is to defend and improve private sector pensions. The average civil service pension is just over 4k a year - hardly excessive.

When the going is good though, those in the private sector quite happily trouser their profit related pay, bonuses, share options and whatever else.

If everyone ends up penniless in retirement, the state will still end up paying through benefits and pension credits.

The average public sector pension may well be just over £4kpa (have £5.6k in my head), but this is just the average amount PAID and is distorted by the higher number of part time workers, women (may not work for as many years due to child care or others reasons) and mainly by the fact that many people don't stay in one job all their life so they haven't accrued a public pension throughout their working life...

(ie. If Fred worked for the council for 20 years and then worked in the private sector for 20 years then his public sector pension might well be £4k (20/80 * £16k) but he will also receive a private pension.)


If a council worker works for 40 years and has final salary of £26k (average salary) then their pension would be about £13k (a bit more than the £4k quoted as average pension) As a comparison if that same worker was in an average private sector scheme then they would end up with a pension of about £6k (assumed 5% employee contributions, matched by employer, 3% investment growth above inflation, 3% annuity rate with 5% escalator)

As I work in the private sector, if I want a better pension in retirement then I would have to increase my contributions...........unfortunately as I've had no pay rise for 4 years and taxes have risen, I can't do that. So I would be grateful if the public sector got a grip on the reality of the economic mess the country is in and 'helped' by accepting the gravy train is over and perhaps they could work harder for a bit less, like many in the private sector have accepted.

(And the argument that public sector needs better pensions as pay is lower - refer to IFS data or Guardian article 13/10/11, as average public sector pay exceeds private sector at all levels up to top management)

 

[phildo]

There isn't a shortfall in the teachers pension, it was restructured in 2007 and is doing fine. Why change it again?

Teachers pension scheme is an 'unfunded' scheme. Existing teachers contributions go to the Exchequer and the Exchequer pays the pensioners. I accept that the actuarial review in 2007 showed only a very small predicted shortfall between future assets and liabilities and that's perhaps why the increases being suggested for the TPS are lower than some other public sector pensions?

I guess politically it is easier/fairer to reform all the public sector schemes rather than hit those with defecits with an even higher increase.

 

[henryscat]

I would be grateful if the public sector got a grip on the reality of the economic mess the country is in and 'helped' by accepting the gravy train is over and perhaps they could work harder for a bit less, like many in the private sector have accepted.

It wasn't the public sector that caused the "economic mess".

And you haven't answered the point about what cost to the state in the future if everyone's pensions get done over now?