The Bethany Project pt.2

[Threnody]

Hi all...new here!

I've been reading up about the plans for the old Bethany site to be redone for a 32 room hostel in the same location....I wasn't in Stafford when the original was active but have read some reports suggesting that the real trouble kicked off when the project closed but users were still accessng the site. Any opinions or comments??
Also i'm thinking about Brunswick Terrace residents who have horror stories about drug taking/crime on their street. Do people think that the new housing development on the old site of the railway depot will cut this out as Brunwick Terrace no longer faces an industrial site..?

The actual site for Bethany pt.2 seems ridiculous to me. Next to the station, Opposite the park, in Stafford town centre. Surely this would be better placed elsewhere...out of sight, out of mind and all!

 

[tek-monkey]

The actual site for Bethany pt.2 seems ridiculous to me. Next to the station, Opposite the park, in Stafford town centre. Surely this would be better placed elsewhere...out of sight, out of mind and all!

Erm, where is this?!?!!? The main problem I had with the bethany was all the crack heads and alcoholics sat in the town park all day trying to blag change or fags out of you. A few years ago I had to walk through the park twice a day to get to/from work, and it was an almost daily occurance. A few even got quite arsey with me for daring not to smoke when they asked me for a fag (one even said 'well give me some money to get some then!'). As a resident of Friars Terrace, I was also used to seeing them in the morning counting out their change to buy cans of tennants super from Paul's newsagent.

Don't get me wrong, I know these places are required and do help a lot of people out. A friend of mine used to work at Lichfield House, and another 2 have been residents there. The ones drinking in the street really kill off a lot of sympathy though.


EDIT: Re-read that and realised its on the same site, doh! I thought that was being ditched and a new one put somewhere else? There are plenty of places available I'm sure, wouldn't putting it somewhere near the jobcentre be a better bet?

 

[cookie_monster]

my family live down brunswick terrace and as did i prior to going to uni in 1997...although i did come back between 2001 and 2004.

to be honest, the biggest problem was the allotments at the end of the road and the giant shed that was owned by lord stafford....but, now this has gone and the childrens home has been built, im unsure what the situation was like once the bethany shut down.

i remember at one point there was a woman living in the shed with a small baby....and i mean a proper baby, not a toddler. im sure i remember the shed being torched at one point too.

most of my first hand experience related to dealing with shoplifters, beggars (coming in to change their "hard earned" pennies and general stinkiness when i worked in the threshers on mill street....the closest offy to the bethany.

if you can tell me what your interest in the project is and what you intend to do with the opinions provided to you- i may be able to put you in touch with the unofficial residents committee for brunswick terrace.

my personal opinion is that to put a homeless hostel near a school, near a children's unit and near a massive alcohol retailer is nothing short of irresponsible. i understand why near to the station is a good idea...but im sure everyone has noticed the past seasonal trends in stafford homeless population and im not convinced that the hostels proximity to the station doesnt have an impact on this.


x

 

[Edd209]

Not to sure on this, but when the original bt shut down didnt they move the residants up to marston road somewhere?

 

[darben]

I drove past the new build Bethany project today, the scaffolding appears to be coming down.

It is one ugly building that will definately not win the architecture of the year award. It leaves me gob smacked how it ever got granted planning permission as it not in keeping with the area nor is it a progressive enough modern design and therfore does nothing to enhance the area.

It's a shame the heads of the planning department don't stand for re-election, I'm sure they hate Stafford. I often wonder if any of them live here!

 

[John Marwood]

The residents of projects like this need support not rejection

Alcohol is available almost everywhere in the Borough

As for the building design, it is on a par with 99 per cent of all new British buildings - completely Shyte

 

[Gramaisc]

I must have a look. Is it not in keeping with Tesco?

 

[Lunar Scorpion]

I must have a look. Is it not in keeping with Tesco?

LMAO

 

[tek-monkey]

I still don't get why the Bethany needs to be there, why not relocate it? Decide what resources these people need most (other than an off license) and move it closer to them. Have the area near the park free of wasters supping from 2 litre bottles of white lightning whilst asking for spare quids for a non existant train home. I'm all for helping people, but not those who don't give a ****.

Saying that, I moved out of that area now, so don't send them to anywhere near me

 

[John Marwood]

Relocate to where exactly?

It is central

It is available at the right price

It is not a place any 'resident' really wants to be but people's circumstances are such that they find themselves in need of support or simply need to be away from an even more dangerous environment

Be thankful some of us have choices

 

[tek-monkey]

Well there is no longer any jobcentre in town, maybe nearer that? Do you think someone would have been more likely to have a go at getting the Eagle open again if it wasn't for the neighbours? As that seems a waste of a decent building.

I know people end up in situations they can't control, see my first post in this thread. What benefits are there to the residents putting it there though? For that matter, where are they now? I know a few ended up in Lichfield, an old sofa surfer from my place certainly did, but what about the rest?

 

[John Marwood]

fair points sir...

The finger was pointing not at us locals but:

"Care in Community" as originated by Thatcher and expanded by Blair and furthered by Brown ( I cannot be bothered to mention Major )(OK i just did )

Everything in the caring sector now has to be costed and sent out for tender to the private sector

But no one knows why, we all just bury our heads, and cross our fingers, and mix our metaphores, and ...hope

Too late tho- New Labour was the Old Tories, The New Tories come 2010 will make this little lot look like Communists

 

[Gramaisc]

I understand that Enoch Powell's 'Water Tower' speech of 1961 is often regarded as the origin of the Care in the Community policy.

 

[John Marwood]

Rivers of Blood, the prequel?

I sometimes wonder what might have happened if certain politicians had been 'eliminated' at various points in history

Whether or not their policy would simply have been carried on regardless, or if at that point the next incumbent would have reversed the actions and trends

I suppose we have to look at the factual moments when certain leaders were actually eliminated, for a guide.

 

[Gramaisc]

On 27 July 1959 Powell gave his speech on Hola Camp of Kenya, where eleven Mau Mau were killed after refusing work in the camp. Powell noted that some MPs had described the eleven as "sub-human" but Powell responded by saying: "In general, I would say that it is a fearful doctrine, which must recoil upon the heads of those who pronounce it, to stand in judgment on a fellow human being and to say, 'Because he was such-and-such, therefore the consequences which would otherwise flow from his death shall not flow'." Powell also disagreed with the notion that because it was in Africa then different methods were acceptable:

Nor can we ourselves pick and choose where and in what parts of the world we shall use this or that kind of standard. We cannot say, 'We will have African standards in Africa, Asian standards in Asia and perhaps British standards here at home'. We have not that choice to make. We must be consistent with ourselves everywhere. All Government, all influence of man upon man, rests upon opinion. What we can do in Africa, where we still govern and where we no longer govern, depends upon the opinion which is entertained of the way in which this country acts and the way in which Englishmen act. We cannot, we dare not, in Africa of all places, fall below our own highest standards in the acceptance of responsibility.

Denis Healey, MP from 1952 to 1992, later said this speech was "the greatest parliamentary speech I ever heard... it had all the moral passion and rhetorical force of Demosthenes". The Daily Telegraph report of the speech said that "as Mr Powell sat down, he put his hand across his eyes. His emotion was justified, for he had made a great and sincere speech".

Not everything is black or white....

 

[cookie_monster]

I sometimes wonder what might have happened if certain politicians had been 'eliminated' at various points in history

Whether or not their policy would simply have been carried on regardless, or if at that point the next incumbent would have reversed the actions and trends

I suppose we have to look at the factual moments when certain leaders were actually eliminated, for a guide.

stephen fry wrote a book about exactly that thing.....cant remember the name of it but i can see the front cover.


x

 

[tek-monkey]

.....cant remember the name of it but i can see the front cover.

Could you not walk over and take a look? Or at least squint a little, see if that helps?

 

[Gramaisc]

I sometimes wonder what might have happened if certain politicians had been 'eliminated' at various points in history

Whether or not their policy would simply have been carried on regardless, or if at that point the next incumbent would have reversed the actions and trends

I suppose we have to look at the factual moments when certain leaders were actually eliminated, for a guide.

stephen fry wrote a book about exactly that thing.....cant remember the name of it but i can see the front cover.


x

Sound like it might be 'Making History'.

 

[cookie_monster]

Sound like it might be 'Making History'.

it is indeed..and especially for tek-monkey, heres the cover.


x

 

[alecto_56]

I guess the best place for Bethany 2 would have been further up the rail yard a little way past tesco heading towards Friars Terrace with a gate guard on duty to make sure those who really have a need for homeless accomondation were housed adequately but not comfortably each evening.

The sign on the front advertising apartments is a real kick in the teeth for those who work but cannot afford their own place and make do with a crummy bedsit in a shared house.

A question that always springs to mind on hearing about the homeless - where do they kip down for the night when not harrassing folk outside Argos or Iceland.

Ex Soldiers some suffering from PTSD bunking down for the night here there and everywhere - gets the sympathy vote.

Those sorry assed layabouts with well fed dogs anchored on a peice of string sitting cross legged with a sheet of cardboard under their lazy backsides and a tattered quilt are taking the mick.

One of the extra Bethany hostels was in Sandyford Street - till it was knocked down, now poor Marsh Street, and surrounding areas get them!