The future of town centers? - Discussion

[Frontal]

So, recent threads got me thinking.

Why do we place so much emphasis on the high street as an indicator of a towns success?
Is it even important in the modern age of shopping?
Moving forward, as more and more shopping is done online .... why even bother with town centers?
Should a towns measure of success be something more like employment levels - people contributing to tax, etc ?

I mean, I get there is a lot of sentimentality towards the heyday of the high street, but rather than trying to recapture the past, should we not be looking towards the future?

Food for thought.

 

[Lucy]

Town centres rely on people to have time to shop. Only 30 years ago it was normal for only 1 person in a household to work, but that's now not the case. I don't want to spend my weekends shopping, and many others don't either. I don't believe recapturing the past is possible.

 

[Frontal]

Yeah, it always struck me as 'odd' that the shops are mostly open when people earning money are mostly at work (9-5 weekdays), I hadn't considered the whole 1 working person in a household aspect I guess.

I still find it odd that weekdays can be busy with shoppers who have disposable capital

 

[Gareth]

Great topic.

I dread to think where town centres will be in 20 years time.

There will still be a social, leisure and entertainment aspect, but retail will diminish and diminish.

The current generation and their kids will be brought on internet shopping and social media interaction etc etc, thatis before further evolvement to make human interactions and shopping habits even less demanding.

Today's children will not be raised on the requirements or importance to get out or the role high streets played in `our` youth.

The sooner the government, councils and landlords figure this out the better.

More housing is required go mitigate the eventual loss or purpose built leisure complexes. The flip side of that is both could require older heritage buildings under serious threat. But if they are not used they will become obsolete, end of no point pretending otherwise.

Some wake up calls and tough decisions will be needed in the next couple of decades.

City centres though will be fine as they become more significant.

 

[Mikinton]

Great topic.

I dread to think where town centres will be in 20 years time.

There will still be a social, leisure and entertainment aspect, but retail will diminish and diminish.

Indeed - it'll be the social aspect that'll keep town centres going (and may explain the Riverside units being located at that end of town). After all, if I just wanted to watch a movie and follow it with a curry, I could download the former and get on the phone for the latter. But if I wanted some social interaction as well, then town's the place to go.

As regards retail, it's getting more and more difficult to find a reason to go into town and buy something, given that there's always supermarkets, retail parks and the internet as alternatives. Maybe that's why charity shops and pound shops are doing well as they don't lend themselves to a presence on the internet. And I still like to know what I'm buying first, which usually means seeing and holding the item. And as regards clothing and especially shoes, I really have to try them on first.

 

[Gareth]

Same as me, I never internet shop. However virtually everyone I know is different and we are of an age that used to shop on foot and face to face.

I seem to be a rarity in shopping habits.

 

[Lucy]

Time is a precious commodity nowadays.

 

[Mikinton]

Time is a precious commodity nowadays.

.... for some.

 

[kyoto49]

Great topic.

I dread to think where town centres will be in 20 years time.

There will still be a social, leisure and entertainment aspect, but retail will diminish and diminish.

The current generation and their kids will be brought on internet shopping and social media interaction etc etc, thatis before further evolvement to make human interactions and shopping habits even less demanding.

Today's children will not be raised on the requirements or importance to get out or the role high streets played in `our` youth.

The sooner the government, councils and landlords figure this out the better.

More housing is required go mitigate the eventual loss or purpose built leisure complexes. The flip side of that is both could require older heritage buildings under serious threat. But if they are not used they will become obsolete, end of no point pretending otherwise.

Some wake up calls and tough decisions will be needed in the next couple of decades.

City centres though will be fine as they become more significant.

Massive and inaccurate generalisation. I am raising one of todays children and I can assure you that shopping in real shops, particularly for clothes, shoes, books and gifts is still essential to todays youth. They will internet shop for stuff, but to say that they will not be raised on the requirements of the high street how we were is inaccurate guff -to be frank!! Kids like to shop, but they'll get a bargain online if possible too!

Having said that, the high street needs to change. Building societies, banks, insurance brokers, council offices, none of these are really needed and certainly not in the numbers currently provided. Council Offices should infact be located out of town in some cheap industrial unit, not in prime town centre locations that cost the tax payer a bleedin fortune.

Adapt is what high streets need to do, probably reduce in size as well. Like I've said on another thread, most of what is north of the market square in Stafford could easily be converted to residential properties.

 

[Woody38]

Yeah I agree in some ways, but we should not turn our backs on towns, they are a good way of meeting people, a lot of people still do like going shopping, but a lot more needs to be done, when M & S & the co op closed/moved they places should have been bulldozed, they could have been used for temporary parking until something better is found for them, not leave them to rot.

 

[andy w]

I was speaking with a workmate from Rugeley and he made a telling comment about Stafford when he said there is a lot in Stafford but it's spread all over the place. The same can be said of many towns where retail development has mainly being focussed on retail parks with parking next to the units.
With the Riverside development giving the town centre a boost, Stafford is doing much better than similar towns but it must be recognised the national trend to lower footfall and more internet shopping. As said above town centres will have to evolve for other uses.

 

[Carole]

I was speaking with a mate, he made a comment, he said there is a lot in Stafford but it's spread all over the place.

Excellent, just like London, Birmingham, Manchester and other places which are spread all over the place and people still visit without minding walking from one bit to another.

There is hope for us yet.

 

[HopesDad]

Excellent, just like London, Birmingham, Manchester and other places which are spread all over the place and people still visit without minding walking from one bit to another.

There is hope for us yet.

You can't really be comparing Stafford with major cities like London, Birmingham and Manchester now, surely?

 

[gilbert grape]

We evolve, times change and we have to get used to it. I have an old map somewhere showing how many buildings in the town centre used to be pubs, That was how society was at that time. We are experiencing different business, society and social issues so will move towards a different way of living. I think we are moving towards more bars, eateries and smaller shops on the high street with larger chains in centres. I walked through the riverside development the other day and thought "if it wasn't popular nobody would be here" and it was pretty busy. When the rest of the food outlets open, it will be even busier. This is still part of the centre but away from the high street, so I think it will still contribute to the over all economy of the area, as well as increased footfall. I can see a few more businesses like Bean Encounter, Oatcakes & Milkshakes, Belle's coffee shop or the new Tea Rooms opening up in town, especially once they sort the North End of the high street and Kingsmead out.
I also think you will always get people with a glass half empty or half full and they will never change in their opinions.

 

[Gramaisc]

I also think you will always get people with a glass half empty or half full and they will never change in their opinions.

Our opinions matter little.

The councils will just coast along anyway and shops will come and go as their returns (or projected returns) dictate to them.

Most of the shops that I would have frequented have gone. I and others presumably didn't spend enough in them.

Other shops, that I have often never been in, have arrived and stayed.

What matters is what the local general population are going to spend money on.

 

[HopesDad]

Our opinions matter little.

The councils will just coast along anyway and shops will come and go as their returns (or projected returns) dictate to them.

Most of the shops that I would have frequented have gone. I and others presumably didn't spend enough in them.

Other shops, that I have often never been in, have arrived and stayed.

What matters is what the local general population are going to spend money on.

This is exactly the problem. Stafford is lumbered with a totally ineffective council and so nothing will ever change.

 

[BobClay]

Personally I think a town centre should be about entertainment, social gathering, places to eat and enjoy. But that's going to take a much more European attitude rather than this 'Oh wow, lets build a bigger and better shopping area' American style approach. Shopping is moving more and more online, you might not like that, but it's happening because for many (me included) it's just much easier.

I'd go into a town for a few drinks, a meal, entertainment which you can't get from a smart TV or the internet regardless of keyboard heroics. Traditionally we've bypassed that in the UK because our climate is a bit unpredictable ... well guys ... the world is warming up. Seems to me we should make the best of it, not sure how long it's going to last.

 

[Gareth]

You can't really be comparing Stafford with major cities like London, Birmingham and Manchester now, surely?

You do.....all the time

 

[Gareth]

Massive and inaccurate generalisation. I am raising one of todays children and I can assure you that shopping in real shops, particularly for clothes, shoes, books and gifts is still essential to todays youth. They will internet shop for stuff, but to say that they will not be raised on the requirements of the high street how we were is inaccurate guff -to be frank!! Kids like to shop, but they'll get a bargain online if possible too!

Having said that, the high street needs to change. Building societies, banks, insurance brokers, council offices, none of these are really needed and certainly not in the numbers currently provided. Council Offices should infact be located out of town in some cheap industrial unit, not in prime town centre locations that cost the tax payer a bleedin fortune.

Adapt is what high streets need to do, probably reduce in size as well. Like I've said on another thread, most of what is north of the market square in Stafford could easily be converted to residential properties.

It is an accurate generalisation indeed. Out shopping habits have moved on considerably from the last 15 years plus.

You honestly saying retail parks, supermarkets and internet shopping especially have had no impact....then you are deluded.

I know older folk who hardly know how to switch on a pc but have discovered interr shopping. You think of the impact when this current new generation are grown with access to IT from a young age I certainly never had. That's before the technology advances of the next 15 years are taken in account.

To move councils out of town centres is just a stilly idea.

let us empty town centres of major employers so even less people are in town.

Let us empty the large buildings, some times historical buildings to he left empty..maybe forever.

Let us make councils completely inaccessible and move them from centralised locations, many have occupied for centuries

Please please never be a councillor...scary ideas.

 

[Really?]

The internet is growing but the High Street will survive - the number of people NOT shopping on line is also growing as people get suspicious of people trading on the internet and dislike the lack of real security and human interaction. The big will survive as people like the repulsive Amazon continue their march to domination.
The internet is also changing, according to GlobalIndex: 94% of internet users have at least one social media account and 98% of internet users have visited a social network site in the last month. Only 24% of us use adblockers in the UK at the moment, that is set to double in the next two years meaning the internet MUST change to adapt. Advertisers will do this by using video, particularly on Facebook. This pseudo personal interaction will only go so far.

People have been predicting the death of High Street shopping for fifty years, but people enjoy it. Get people into towns and they will interact and spend. The "café culture" is fine, but people will still wander and buy. Shop hours will change - they used to be based around the banks opening hours as people would shop on the way to, or from the bank ( we are talking a couple of hundred years ago) and we became used to fitting around opening hours. Now, we want opening hours to fit around us so shops will need to open longer hours, or rather later hours, and change to being open when the people are there, rather than when the banks are open. Banks and Building societies will go but any shop with real, good, personal interaction will be just fine.