Yet another standstill

[gilesjuk]

When my kids were younger,the little uns now 20 so it were a few yrs ago,whenever the school had a day out,you could always tell those that travelled by car to school,as apposed to them that walked.cos the little darlings that were ferried to n fro couldn't walk above 100yrds without moanin they were knackered!

Exactly, you may also have a child who is a future sports star but it never happens as they're unfit and their development is stunted by being driven everywhere.

I walked (and later cycled) 1.5 miles to school for about 4 of my school years. That's each way!

Driving the kids to school is potentially condemning them to a life of health problems.

 

[gilesjuk]

Bicycle, again what about children?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97F67tuQUMU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjF1WgkIcJo

The Dutch seem to manage. Even in the snow!

 

[wizzard]

But what about the people with children (small things that run around and need to be looked after) - ive never seen a baby taken to nursery on the back of a motorcycle! (not yet anyway lol) - as for taxi's i doubt anyone could afford a taxi to do a school run and then to work and in reverse! Bicycle, again what about children

I think that was the whole point originally made (and perhaps the very point of this discussion) - just because we don't do something today, because we've been conditioned to behave in a certain way, that doesn't mean we can't think of ways to do things differently in the future. It was said earlier that before cars became within the reach of the ordinary person, people still had to go to work and children still had to go to school. What did we do then? I admit that reading through this discussion over the last couple of days, I'm starting to think differently about this whole problem.

As for the fields of rape seed argument, I think that's completely irrelevant.

This is the reason why back in the 1700s and 1800s communities were built on the factory sites, so workers didn't have to walk far to get to work.

So going to back to this kind of thing could be a solution if there were no cars or public transport.

 

[gilesjuk]

This is the reason why back in the 1700s and 1800s communities were built on the factory sites, so workers didn't have to walk far to get to work.

So going to back to this kind of thing could be a solution if there were no cars or public transport.

Indeed. Bournville in Birmingham is a good example of that. You still can't buy alcohol in that area despite Tesco trying to.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/article1485208.ece

Of course the biggest obstacle of the job for life is how career progression works these days, people having to leave and join another company to get advancement.

But if you have kids then what good is moving job every 12 months or so and possibly spending even longer in the car? surely they would rather you spent quality time with them instead of you earning more (which you will probably spend on transport).

There are a lot of commercial and planning decisions made with the assumption that people will drive. Even closing hospitals because the assumption is that people can always drive to the next nearest one.

You really have to wonder what the future holds when such un-green decisions are made.

 

[gilesjuk]

For starters, nationally about 25% of households don't have access to a car. In the larger cities this tends to be a lot higher. So, clearly significant numbers of people do conduct their lives without one...

Indeed. But what would be helpful is those that easily can walk, bus or cycle do so and then those who are lazy can just drive in as usual, in a much reduced time.

 

[ddub1984]

those who are lazy can just drive in as usual, in a much reduced time.

I'm sorry but dont describe car drivers as "lazy". No offence meant to you personally, but having read this thread & others like it, its very easy for people, some of whom who have the luxury of not having to work for a living, to take the moral high ground & accuse us car drivers of taking the "easy option", when we could cycle etc. But I challenge any person on this forum to berate me for having to run a car. If any person on here wants to challenge me on this, I work shifts- 10am-10pm, 7 days a week; (on a 4-on, 4-off basis); my home postcode is WS12 2ET, my work postcode is WV10 6UH. Use the Transport Direct websites & tell me how on earth I am supposed to get to my job & back on my shifts without running a car. & I dont even have kids to take to school to add to the equation.

Consider that before saying that people can do without cars, because I can guarantee that 95% of the population would not be able to live their lives without cars. We in this country do not have a viable public transport alternative, apart from people that live in central London etc. I cant afford to give up my job, much as I would love to!!! & I can tell you for a fact I cant get to work without a car. So yes it does make me quite angry actually when people try & preach to me that I could "manage" without one. Because my car is my only means of getting to work to earn a living to pay my bills.

N.B. Yes before anyone points it out, I dont live in Stafford anymore, I now live in Cannock, but I lived in Stafford for 25 of my 27 years, & I bet there are many people in Stafford who (in order to find a job) end up having to work in other towns than they live in, who find themselves in the same situation as me, with no choice but to run a car.

Spoken as someone who is not "lazy", & who doesnt "choose" to spend a fortune running a car, but has to run one or alternatively not be able to get to work!!!

 

[Askatia]

WOW am so lost by this i have no idea what i'm doing, but i missed the standstill, mainly cos i don't drive very much lol

 

[Askatia]

Oh but after reading the last post, how do you work 7 days a week when it's 4 on and 4 off??

 

[John Marwood]

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[Miss Red]

DDUB 1984 has got what im trying to say - not everyone has all day to catch a bus or walk around sightseeing the shops!! As for kids and school.....not everyones school is right on there doorstep!!! It used to be years ago, but things "changed". I lived in eccleshall 2 yrs ago.......I worked in stafford and my daughter went to school in stone!!!!
Slightly further than walking distance.

I have never been a pajama mommy who drives to school then gets back for the latest episode of morning tv!

Perhaps thats it! Theres a lot of those around and anyone that is in a situation of working with kids gets overlooked for the majority!!

 

[ddub1984]

Oh but after reading the last post, how do you work 7 days a week when it's 4 on and 4 off??

What I mean is that my shifts are spread across all 7 days of the week, not just Monday to Friday, so I still have to get to work at weekends. Its apparently called a "continental shift pattern", works out at the same number of hours as a 9-5, I actually prefer it, gives me much more flexibility than a 9-5 would.

 

[tek-monkey]

People are just bone idle, it's why obesity is common now. In the 1960s people would walk an average of 30 minutes a day!

I'm quite shocked to think people still don't!

As for the work thing, I have several times had to back out of job interviews once I realised the impractabilities invovled in getting to/from on a regular basis. Even my last place in Newcastle UL took a 25 minute walk, a train and 2 buses to get to! Without the motorbike I wouldn't have stood a chance, as I was using 30% of my pay in public transport costs. I now have a job I can walk to again, 25 minutes each way which is ideal, but its taken me a while to find it. It is often not possible to work where you live.

 

[gilesjuk]

I now have a job I can walk to again, 25 minutes each way which is ideal, but its taken me a while to find it. It is often not possible to work where you live.

Well, it's not always possible but it is something to aim for. After all the population is growing and the roads aren't going to get any quieter.

I bought a house in the town where I work, I've been there for 6-7 years now. Others have moved on to other companies but having taken ownership of my mums dogs and my mum needing 24/7 care it was a priority to have some stability in my life.

 

[Chick]

those who are lazy can just drive in as usual, in a much reduced time.

I'm sorry but dont describe car drivers as "lazy". No offence meant to you personally, but having read this thread & others like it, its very easy for people, some of whom who have the luxury of not having to work for a living, to take the moral high ground & accuse us car drivers of taking the "easy option", when we could cycle etc. But I challenge any person on this forum to berate me for having to run a car. If any person on here wants to challenge me on this, I work shifts- 10am-10pm, 7 days a week; (on a 4-on, 4-off basis); my home postcode is WS12 2ET, my work postcode is WV10 6UH. Use the Transport Direct websites & tell me how on earth I am supposed to get to my job & back on my shifts without running a car. & I dont even have kids to take to school to add to the equation.

Consider that before saying that people can do without cars, because I can guarantee that 95% of the population would not be able to live their lives without cars. We in this country do not have a viable public transport alternative, apart from people that live in central London etc. I cant afford to give up my job, much as I would love to!!! & I can tell you for a fact I cant get to work without a car. So yes it does make me quite angry actually when people try & preach to me that I could "manage" without one. Because my car is my only means of getting to work to earn a living to pay my bills.

N.B. Yes before anyone points it out, I dont live in Stafford anymore, I now live in Cannock, but I lived in Stafford for 25 of my 27 years, & I bet there are many people in Stafford who (in order to find a job) end up having to work in other towns than they live in, who find themselves in the same situation as me, with no choice but to run a car.

Spoken as someone who is not "lazy", & who doesnt "choose" to spend a fortune running a car, but has to run one or alternatively not be able to get to work!!!

It's not really relevant to the conversation but we work in the same building

 

[gilesjuk]

; my home postcode is WS12 2ET, my work postcode is WV10 6UH. Use the Transport Direct websites & tell me how on earth I am supposed to get to my job & back on my shifts without running a car.

Only 8.5 miles? wow, I do that on an evening on the bike over Cannock Chase with my dogs. I sometimes do a 30 mile training loop on a Monday.

I used to do just over 12 miles each way. I did it under an hour and 12 mph average is pretty slow

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/4472032

Anyway, when you took the job you knew you had a car and so thought nothing of the distance. If you didn't have one then you wouldn't have taken the job or would have moved nearer to it.

I have said on this forum before that it is the people who are driving a mile or two to work who are the people who need to reconsider if they really need to be driving. They clog up the roads in the town for those who are a considerable distance away.

We have placement students where I am and one of them manages to get here (Stafford) from Dudley every morning without a car. He walks from the train station too, a bicycle makes no sense since he can walk to the station in time for the train and getting there sooner would mean sitting around.

Spoken as someone who is not "lazy", & who doesnt "choose" to spend a fortune running a car, but has to run one or alternatively not be able to get to work!!!

Or someone who has a really low expectation of what the human body is capable of. There are people in their 70s who are still putting in 50 or 60 miles a day on the bicycle and there's you claiming to be incapable of riding 8.5 miles each way?

 

[henryscat]

those who are lazy can just drive in as usual, in a much reduced time.

I'm sorry but dont describe car drivers as "lazy".

A lot are. Otherwise there wouldn't be such a big proportion of short journeys made by car.

Consider that before saying that people can do without cars, because I can guarantee that 95% of the population would not be able to live their lives without cars.

Er, since a lot less than 95% of the population actually have access to a car that's patently untrue.

People make lifestyle decisions that make themselves more car dependent (e.g. live in the country, a decision made because the road network is actually quite good...). People are also lazy and use their car when there is no need to. My Aunt/Uncle live about 4 minutes walk from my parents house, are perfectly mobile, yet they drive the few hundred yards if they visit - which is insane if you ask me. They are in the mindset of going absolutely everywhere by car regardless of distance, and they are by no means in a minority.

The RAC Foundation did a study on "essential" car use some while back and they concluded that only circa 20% of car journeys were necessary/absolutely couldn't be made in any other way. That was coming from a motoring organisation.

We in this country do not have a viable public transport alternative, apart from people that live in central London etc.

What constitutes a "viable public transport alternative"? Quite often this gets spouted as an excuse, as even if the public transport option is there a lot of people won't use it unless you force them out of their car.

 

[Gramaisc]

There are people in their 70s who are still putting in 50 or 60 miles a day on the bicycle

A couple of years ago I passed a few old codgers on racing-style bikes as I ascended The Rise in Walton. They were all easily 80 years old. I asked the last one as I passed him "How far have you been?" "We've been to Bridgnorth for breakfast" was the answer...

 

[henryscat]

As for kids and school.....not everyones school is right on there doorstep!!! It used to be years ago, but things "changed". I lived in eccleshall 2 yrs ago.......I worked in stafford and my daughter went to school in stone!!!!
Slightly further than walking distance.

If you're further than 3 miles from the catchment school then free school transport is provided isn't it?

 

[gilesjuk]

There are people in their 70s who are still putting in 50 or 60 miles a day on the bicycle

A couple of years ago I passed a few old codgers on racing-style bikes as I ascended The Rise in Walton. They were all easily 80 years old. I asked the last one as I passed him "How far have you been?" "We've been to Bridgnorth for breakfast" was the answer...

The average age of the Stafford Road Club is quite high, they were appealing for new members a while back.

But it puts things into perspective a bit? I'm "only" 37 and yet somehow that is seen as old now.

 

[gilesjuk]

Er, since a lot less than 95% of the population actually have access to a car that's patently untrue.

Not to mention over 10% of the population live in London and there's plenty of other cities too with similar public transport.

But to be honest I don't like public transport, slow, expensive, inconvenient.

Most people want door to door transport and there's only a few ways you can do that.