80mph motorways?

[MarkyD]

It's kind of the rule of thumb to move over into a clear lain for people who are joining the motorway or duel carriage. Especially if there's a fuel station that exits directly onto the duel carriageway... a lot of people will expect you to move over so they'll just pull out regardless. So it's best to give people the room to join, I've seen too many accidents due to people running out of slip road space and then cutting across in panic or not anticipating some one might pull out of a fuel station and join the carriage thinking you'll move over...

 

[henryscat]

No, that's called being considerate, and most drivers do move across if there's somewhere to go.

It is up to the joining traffic to join in a safe gap, simple as that. I don't see lorries moving across... When the carriageway is busy it isn't helpful if a load of people suddenly move en masse from lanes 1 to 2 (and then 2 to 3 in turn), nor is it safe a lot of the time as people in lane 1 panic just because someone is joining the carriageway and suddenly change lanes. It is inconsiderate of those joining to expect to barge others out of the way. Most of the time the problem is caused because the person on the slip road wants to accelerate up the inside of you and join in front rather than behind. That's the most common scenario I encounter. Also, people hare up the sliproad up each other's backside and all expect to join together in one gap. If I'm behind another vehicle on a slip road I'll accelerate a bit less harshly to leave a sufficient gap.

The people who choose to stay where they are and be inconsiderate are usually the nervous drivers who are incapable of overtaking properly, change lanes without warning and don't know how to use roundabouts.

Bollocks, how does staying in lane equate to nervousness? Or being inconsiderate? If people are leaving proper gaps there should be a gap in front or behind you for something to join.

Clearly you've never had to join a motorway at a junction such as this, where some ignorant tw*t refuses to move over into a clear lane and you've got nowhere to go.

Joined motorways at zillions of junctions and never had a problem. That link goes to quite an easy crossroads in the middle of Lancaster, looks straightforward enough.

 

[henryscat]

It's kind of the rule of thumb to move over into a clear lain for people who are joining the motorway or duel carriage. Especially if there's a fuel station that exits directly onto the duel carriageway... a lot of people will expect you to move over so they'll just pull out regardless. So it's best to give people the room to join, I've seen too many accidents due to people running out of slip road space and then cutting across in panic or not anticipating some one might pull out of a fuel station and join the carriage thinking you'll move over...

The accident is the fault of the person joining then - never assume anything.

 

[henryscat]

Know what you mean there HC - it rattles my cage when people seem to think that the middle lane is exclusively for their use, rather that overtaking as it was designed. Most are just inconvenient, but I've seen drivers doing 65 in the middle lane, which just causes obstruction for anyone actually bothering to obey lane discipline; you've then got to cross two lanes to get past them rather than one.

I'd agree that a lot of drivers' lane discipline is appalling. Very often you'll see lanes 2 and 3 rammed, and lane 1 with hardly anything in because so many people are incapable of moving across.

I suspect if cars were speed limited then it might force a bit more discpline because no one could overtake each other above 70 anyway.

 

[MarkyD]

It's kind of the rule of thumb to move over into a clear lain for people who are joining the motorway or duel carriage. Especially if there's a fuel station that exits directly onto the duel carriageway... a lot of people will expect you to move over so they'll just pull out regardless. So it's best to give people the room to join, I've seen too many accidents due to people running out of slip road space and then cutting across in panic or not anticipating some one might pull out of a fuel station and join the carriage thinking you'll move over...

The accident is the fault of the person joining then - never assume anything.

The ignorance of another driver can cause it still, accidents can be avoided. Anticipating what the driver in front or next to you is about to do is key to helping anyone avoid an unnecessary situation. We should all be looking out for each other on the road, none of us want to be in an accident and if you can help prevent one by correctly pre-compensating for some idiots impending action then you've done other road users a favour, for example:

"he looks like he's going to risk pulling out on us, best move over early just in case" This way you've just made the road a safer place for everyone. Hazard perception is something people lack. They instead let it happen, slam on the brakes then start giving the offender a deserved mouth full or worse yet, crash into them and cause a pileup. The attitude of "they can get out of my way, it's all their fault if something happens" is not the right one to take, that alone causes accidents.

 

[henryscat]

The ignorance of another driver can cause it still, accidents can be avoided. Anticipating what the driver in front or next to you is about to do is key to helping anyone avoid an unnecessary situation. We should all be looking out for each other on the road, none of us want to be in an accident and if you can help prevent one by correctly pre-compensating for some idiots impending action then you've done other road users a favour, for example:

"he looks like he's going to risk pulling out on us, best move over early just in case" This way you've just made the road a safer place for everyone. Hazard perception is something people lack. They instead let it happen, slam on the brakes then start giving the offender a deserved mouth full or worse yet, crash into them and cause a pileup. The attitude of "they can get out of my way, it's all their fault if something happens" is not the right one to take, that alone causes accidents.

There is a very fine line. Anticipation is clearly important, and if you anticipate someone else is going to do something stupid then agreed you should act upon it. But going back to the specific example of slip roads: the person on the slip road is responsible for joining in a safe gap and the person on the slip road cannot assume that people on the main carriageway are all going to move over. If I'm driving in lane 1 I can anticipate that there is a perfectly safe gap available for a person to join in and provided I maintain a constant speed it is reasonable to anticipate that the person on the slip road can safely join in that gap. Too many times people come up a slip road then accelerate alongside a vehicle on the main carriageway, expecting it to get out of the way instead of dropping into a safe gap.

You don't generally see HGVs all shifting from lane 1 to 2 as they pass slip roads, yet strangely people manage to join with out hitting them.

 

[henryscat]

Driving on the motorway
259

Joining the motorway. When you join the motorway you will normally approach it from a road on the left (a slip road) or from an adjoining motorway. You should

give priority to traffic already on the motorway
check the traffic on the motorway and match your speed to fit safely into the traffic flow in the left-hand lane
not cross solid white lines that separate lanes or use the hard shoulder
stay on the slip road if it continues as an extra lane on the motorway
remain in the left-hand lane long enough to adjust to the speed of traffic before considering overtaking

 

[shoes]

what's wrong with 100mph + cars? Cars capable of less than that are dangerously slow IMO and irritating as hell if your'e behind one.

The power that gets you past 100 is the same power which gets you up to 30/40/50/60/70 the same day you started to accelerate. The top gear is geared so that you have low RPM at cruising speed for efficiency. Therefore if the power and rev range is available of course it will go over 100.

Fast cars aren't the issue, bad drivers are.

Guns don't kill people, rappers do.....

 

[MarkyD]

Driving on the motorway
259

Joining the motorway. When you join the motorway you will normally approach it from a road on the left (a slip road) or from an adjoining motorway. You should

give priority to traffic already on the motorway
check the traffic on the motorway and match your speed to fit safely into the traffic flow in the left-hand lane
not cross solid white lines that separate lanes or use the hard shoulder
stay on the slip road if it continues as an extra lane on the motorway
remain in the left-hand lane long enough to adjust to the speed of traffic before considering overtaking

Trouble is though we're talking about reality, not what people should be following out of Highway Code. You'll find on some stretches of motorway it makes perfect sense to move into the 2nd lane and give joining traffic priority because you get odd traffic lines building on some slip roads because the main stretch is so busy or they have bugger road length and have to wait.

 

[dangerousdave]

i find the issue of people driving at a set speed irrespective of the speed limit both amusing and infuriating. when driving back from the south (i.e wolverhampton) to the motherland I often use the lane between penkridge and brocton. just before you get to this you have to drive through a residential area AND a school so i always make sure i don't go over the 30 mph limit, whereas other drivers seem happy to travle at 40 or more. as soon as you get to the lane (which is national speed limit) they stick at 40, or maybe push up to 45, whereas I feel quite happy at driving at, shall we say, a touch above that as i know the road well. if you don't know the road that's fair enough, but why speed past a school a minute beforehand?...

 

[MarkyD]

i find the issue of people driving at a set speed irrespective of the speed limit both amusing and infuriating. when driving back from the south (i.e wolverhampton) to the motherland I often use the lane between penkridge and brocton. just before you get to this you have to drive through a residential area AND a school so i always make sure i don't go over the 30 mph limit, whereas other drivers seem happy to travle at 40 or more. as soon as you get to the lane (which is national speed limit) they stick at 40, or maybe push up to 45, whereas I feel quite happy at driving at, shall we say, a touch above that as i know the road well. if you don't know the road that's fair enough, but why speed past a school a minute beforehand?...

Similar thing happens when you drive past the Uni up towards Western, people forget it's a 40 then a 60 ... So annoying.

 

[Mr X]

Clearly you've never had to join a motorway at a junction such as this, where some ignorant tw*t refuses to move over into a clear lane and you've got nowhere to go.

Joined motorways at zillions of junctions and never had a problem. That link goes to quite an easy crossroads in the middle of Lancaster, looks straightforward enough.

My bad. Here's the correct one.

I don't see lorries moving across...

Pan right a bit. Oh look, a considerate lorry driver moving across.

When the carriageway is busy it isn't helpful if a load of people suddenly move en masse from lanes 1 to 2 (and then 2 to 3 in turn)

I'm not suggesting the entire lane moves over, just one person. Obviously if there's nowhere for you to move across to then you don't move.

It is inconsiderate of those joining to expect to barge others out of the way.

Too right it is. I didn't say that.

Most of the time the problem is caused because the person on the slip road wants to accelerate up the inside of you and join in front rather than behind. That's the most common scenario I encounter.

Those idiots annoy me too - if people do that then, likewise, I'll make their life difficult. But I know that when I want to enter the motorway (in accordance to the highway code, of course) I always appreciate people making room for me. Therefore I treat others the same way, when possible.

Also, people hare up the sliproad up each other's backside and all expect to join together in one gap. If I'm behind another vehicle on a slip road I'll accelerate a bit less harshly to leave a sufficient gap.

Audi drivers? Of course, when entering the motorway I do the same, as any conscientious driver does.

 

[Mr X]

i find the issue of people driving at a set speed irrespective of the speed limit both amusing and infuriating. when driving back from the south (i.e wolverhampton) to the motherland I often use the lane between penkridge and brocton. just before you get to this you have to drive through a residential area AND a school so i always make sure i don't go over the 30 mph limit, whereas other drivers seem happy to travle at 40 or more. as soon as you get to the lane (which is national speed limit) they stick at 40, or maybe push up to 45, whereas I feel quite happy at driving at, shall we say, a touch above that as i know the road well. if you don't know the road that's fair enough, but why speed past a school a minute beforehand?...

Similar thing happens when you drive past the Uni up towards Western, people forget it's a 40 then a 60 ... So annoying.

And then you get to Weston, and they do 40-50 through the village after going down Weston bank, with people behind pressuring you to do the same...

 

[MarkyD]

i find the issue of people driving at a set speed irrespective of the speed limit both amusing and infuriating. when driving back from the south (i.e wolverhampton) to the motherland I often use the lane between penkridge and brocton. just before you get to this you have to drive through a residential area AND a school so i always make sure i don't go over the 30 mph limit, whereas other drivers seem happy to travle at 40 or more. as soon as you get to the lane (which is national speed limit) they stick at 40, or maybe push up to 45, whereas I feel quite happy at driving at, shall we say, a touch above that as i know the road well. if you don't know the road that's fair enough, but why speed past a school a minute beforehand?...

Similar thing happens when you drive past the Uni up towards Western, people forget it's a 40 then a 60 ... So annoying.

And then you get to Weston, and they do 40-50 through the village after going down Weston bank, with people behind pressuring you to do the same...

Yeah! totally ignoring that camera that flashes " 30MPH please through here" on the bridge. Utter TWONKS!

 

[phildo]

Limit should be increased to 80 on motorways & dual carriageways and 70 on national speed limit roads where possible, Most blackspots on national limits are now 40 or 50 rather than 60 anyway.

Explain how 80mph is safe on dual carriageways, when most of them have side road junctions (e.g. A38) and traffic turning through the central reservation. Why is the A34 60mph?

A34 is 60 as it has many junctions, premises etc... I accept that 80 would be too much but 70 would work on some stretches (Monkey Island to Trentham, Stone to Tittensor etc). Plenty of dual carriageways have few junctions and could be 80's.. A55, A50....

Lorries banned from overtaking each other on the motorway unless capable of completing the move in under 2 minutes OR ban lorries from lane 2 between 7am-10am and 4pm-7pm

Why?

The benefit gained by 1 lorry moving in front of another lorry and taking 2-3 minutes to do so effectively reduces the motorway to 1 lane for that time period and causes congestion. Congestion costs time and money. Costs outweigh the benefits.

 

[phildo]

Lorries banned from overtaking each other on the motorway unless capable of completing the move in under 2 minutes OR ban lorries from lane 2 between 7am-10am and 4pm-7pm

Never timed such a manoeuvre myself, but I imagine most are carried out in <2 minutes. It just seems like forever.

I actually had to work it out in excel.... assume that a lorry is about 20 yards long and travelling at 56mph. Then the lorry behind is doing 58mph and obeying 2 second rule so is 57 yards behind. Lorry 2 has to pull out and pass lorry 1 and only pull back into lane 1 when 2 second gap re-established so must travel 57+57+20 = 134 yards. At 58mph this takes 2.36 mins .....

and I've seen some run side by side up the M6 for 2-3 MILES to complete an overtake...

 

[MarkyD]

Lorries banned from overtaking each other on the motorway unless capable of completing the move in under 2 minutes OR ban lorries from lane 2 between 7am-10am and 4pm-7pm

Never timed such a manoeuvre myself, but I imagine most are carried out in <2 minutes. It just seems like forever.

I actually had to work it out in excel.... assume that a lorry is about 20 yards long and travelling at 56mph. Then the lorry behind is doing 58mph and obeying 2 second rule so is 57 yards behind. Lorry 2 has to pull out and pass lorry 1 and only pull back into lane 1 when 2 second gap re-established so must travel 57+57+20 = 134 yards. At 58mph this takes 2.36 mins .....

and I've seen some run side by side up the M6 for 2-3 MILES to complete an overtake...

Yeah, the amount of time's I've come across this on the A14 and the size of the cues that build up from this happening. The drivers don't let traffic pass first they just pull out and everyone gets blocked off.

 

[henryscat]

My bad. Here's the correct one.

Yep, know the one.

Pan right a bit. Oh look, a considerate lorry driver moving across.

Looking at it is interesting, the slip road has obviously had to be done with a different car / camera to the main carriageway, so the lorry isn't moving for the car you can see on the slip road as they're different images bunged together!

I'm not suggesting the entire lane moves over, just one person. Obviously if there's nowhere for you to move across to then you don't move.

I will move if it is safe to do so and the person joining is going to struggle - but in reality its not that often that moving is necessary. What I'm trying to get across is that the majority of drivers have an expectation that you'll move, and I am not prepared to react to that expectation. If there's a safe gap, I hold my line and they can use it without me moving out the way. I'd say moving out is most helpful for HGVs joining than cars which should usually have sufficient acceleration to make use of an available gap.

I've also experienced when I have changed lanes to help someone join, that once in lane 1 the bar stewards keep accelerating (past 70) and will not let you back into lane 1!!

Audi drivers? Of course, when entering the motorway I do the same, as any conscientious driver does.

Not forgetting BMWs as well......

 

[henryscat]

Plenty of dual carriageways have few junctions and could be 80's.. A55, A50....

The A50 has some pretty hairy slip roads - the A515 ones, and the junctions at Tutbury spring to mind, I don't think you'd want the traffic going faster than it already does (which on the A50 seems to be well in excess of 70 already). There's also quite a few laybys along it.

The benefit gained by 1 lorry moving in front of another lorry and taking 2-3 minutes to do so effectively reduces the motorway to 1 lane for that time period and causes congestion. Congestion costs time and money. Costs outweigh the benefits.

What's the cost of an HGV losing a few minutes...? A lot of them are on some pretty tight schedules and have got to get places within drivers hours regs.

The point is that lower speeds do not cause congestion... The capacity of a road is greater at 55mph than 70mph - an HGV overtaking isn't reducing the road to one lane at all. There's still 3 (or 4) lanes available, its just you can't drive as fast in them all. At the peak hours you suggest, average traffic speeds are lower, so at those times there is negligible benefit to be had. As Active Traffic Management extends, variable speed limits of 40 / 50 / 60 will be enforced when traffic is busy in any case so you wouldn't be able to travel any faster than an HGV.

 

[wizzard]

People tend to forget that there is no such thing as a fast and a slow lane, they're all overtaking lanes, everyone should be travelling in the "slow" lane, only venturing over to overtake other vehicles then move back over.