Advice on buying a house off a friend

[db]

so, i recently conned ms. db into agreeing to marry me, and thus begins our first tentative steps on The Road of Life™.. step one - stop renting and buy a house together!

a friend happened to overhear this in the pub a couple of weeks ago, and mentioned that he was selling his house and asked if we would be interested.. we went and had a look round, and it turns out - we would..

we have never looked seriously into buying a house, so promptly went round all the local banks, asking for mortgage advice and the like.. they were all very helpful (obviously, seeing as they wanted our business), and educated us vis a vis stamp duty, deposits, interest rates, and other such dull, soul-crushing shenanigans..

what i want to know from you is, dear forumite, is there anything special we should bear in mind when buying privately - i.e. off a friend, rather than through an estate agent? they want to sell in 6 - 9 months, which is exactly the timescale we're looking for, so in that respect it's perfect.. it also allows us plenty of time to get our affairs in order, and do everything we can to ensure as smooth a sale as possible..

any pitfalls in buying privately/from a friend in this way?

anything in particular we should be asking/insisting upon?

has anyone done it in the past? if so, is there anything you would do differently?

i'm probably not even asking the right questions, such is our naïveté in such matters, and i know we have some very learned forumites in this area, so i would really, really appreciate anyone's input on this.

thanks, y'all

 

[John Marwood]

How much value to do you put on your friendship

A house price valuation is an opinion.

Check land registry sales for prices of similar ( no two are ever exatly identical ) houses to form your own opinion on the value

sale prices are real prices not opinions

If the two opinions on this property are the same you may keep the friendship and buy the house

Your friend may likely choose to have several other opinions on the value of his house and may not reveal all these opinions

Making an offer - Before you make an offer take a look around similar properties on the market to get a realistic idea of what other properties you might want to buy if your friend has a change of mind

You may find better value elsewhere if a seller is under pressure to move quickly and willing to drop their asking price

If you make an offer and the offer is excepted you will then need to hire a surveyor

Do not underestimate the value of a company that has a large resource of expertise. Most houses will not need a mix of expertise but if it does then the larger the company the better. You will get plenty of people recommending you professional local people,but these will be people who have bought a home with few or no unusual problems.

Spending a little more here can save you a lot of money in a lifetime

If your surveyor is satisfied with your choice of property and you have finance then you will need a solicitor

This is where I do have some considerable knowledge on local companies

I cannot recommend any Stafford solicitors

Nor can I recommend any Staffordshire solicitors

You will get people telling you how good their own solictor was, however, again, if your property or the land or the area has a specific problem or unusual circumstance then your local solicitor will likley fail you because they will not have a large pool of specialist expertise

Using a very large city based company will cost you a little more - but you will pay for the pool of expertise within that company if anything unusual arises. And this will save you employing two or more local firms overall - a cost that I can assure you is painful as well as expensive

 

[db]

i was hoping you would stick your oar in, JM - you've always seemed quite knowledgeable of such things in the past

thanks for such an exhaustive answer!

How much value to do you put on your friendship

A house price valuation is an opinion.

fortunately, the chap in question is a lovely bloke, and has no misconceptions about the value of his property, so i don't think he will try and "do us over" or anything.. but obviously i'm gonna put that, as he will prob's read this

(only joking - he really is a genuinely lovely chap, and whilst i'm not naïve enough to ignore this factor altogether, it's not a big concern for us)

Check land registry sales for prices of similar ( no two are ever exatly identical ) houses to form your own opinion on the value

sale prices are real prices not opinions

see, this is exactly the sort of information i was hoping to glean! thanks very much.. i've just looked at http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/public/house-prices-and-sales and it turns out that similar properties on that road have been selling for quite a bit less than i was anticipating, so right away this has been a huge help

Your friend may likely choose to have several other opinions on the value of his house and may not reveal all these opinions

Making an offer - Before you make an offer take a look around similar properties on the market to get a realistic idea of what other properties you might want to buy if your friend has a change of mind

fortunately, it's in an area where i already know a lot of people, including friends who have sold houses round there in the past few years, so i will be able to get advice from them regarding their opinion of the actual value.. i would seek a professional valuation as well - any advice with regards to who to approach for this, anyone?

You may find better value elsewhere if a seller is under pressure to move quickly and willing to drop their asking price

yeah, we have realised that being first time buyers with no "chain" to speak of puts us in a strong position in this regard - as you say, because we are in no rush and can afford to be very flexible, this seems to make us attractive to sellers as we can change our plans at the drop of a hat, should the need arise..

If you make an offer and the offer is excepted you will then need to hire a surveyor

Do not underestimate the value of a company that has a large resource of expertise. Most houses will not need a mix of expertise but if it does then the larger the company the better. You will get plenty of people recommending you professional local people,but these will be people who have bought a home with few or no unusual problems.

Spending a little more here can save you a lot of money in a lifetime

If your surveyor is satisfied with your choice of property and you have finance then you will need a solicitor

again, exactly the sort of nuggets of info i'm after.. noted.. any recommendations?

This is where I do have some considerable knowledge on local companies

I cannot recommend any Stafford solicitors

Nor can I recommend any Staffordshire solicitors

You will get people telling you how good their own solictor was, however, again, if your property or the land or the area has a specific problem or unusual circumstance then your local solicitor will likley fail you because they will not have a large pool of specialist expertise

Using a very large city based company will cost you a little more - but you will pay for the pool of expertise within that company if anything unusual arises. And this will save you employing two or more local firms overall - a cost that I can assure you is painful as well as expensive

interesting.. surely a local company would have a better knowledge of local idiosyncrasies, though? e.g. red ash / red shale in stafford, areas prone to flooding, etc..

happy to defer to your judgement, if you have any recommendations?

many thanks for your help so far!

 

[Vault_girl]

Zoopla also lists sale prices for houses so if you go on there you will get a idea of how much other houses have been selling for over the years in that area. which can be useful but take note of WHEN the house was sold - records go back quite a way...
Congrats and have fun!

 

[1JKz]

i say go for it, not advise per se.

The savings for the seller is obvious (estate agents for one) and time saved for both parties another, if the sale price is doable, your end then, go for it.

The rest, ie house selling and buying, researching other houses that have sold in the area etc is/can be common sense, so get stuck in.

Of course the searches that need doing, mortgage provider surveys etc you have no control over, you have to pay for those, but i think it sounds great, good luck!

 

[db]

Zoopla also lists sale prices for houses so if you go on there you will get a idea of how much other houses have been selling for over the years in that area. which can be useful but take note of WHEN the house was sold - records go back quite a way...
Congrats and have fun!

ah, thanks! the figure zoopla quotes is similar to the one i culled from the land registry site (see above post), so that suggests to me that that is the ball park i should be aiming for - which as i say is a bit less than i at first thought, so this all bodes well so far

 

[db]

i say go for it, not advise per se.

that's the hope! i just want to make sure there's nothing i miss, or if there's anything a newbie like me might not think to consider.. people keep saying to me "oh yeah, that'll be great, you'll save money on both sides (i.e. benefits buyer & seller)", but no-one has been more specific than that so far.. in real life, i mean - everyone's been dead helpful on here, obv's

Of course the searches that need doing, mortgage provider surveys etc you have no control over, you have to pay for those, but i think it sounds great, good luck!

cheers boss

 

[1JKz]

...oh and just one last thing, the Marwood fella said;

'This is where I do have some considerable knowledge on local companies

I cannot recommend any Stafford solicitors

Nor can I recommend any Staffordshire solicitors'

Piffle, and I cannot disagree more, i have used FrisbySolicitors on two occasions for selling and buying houses and they were really good.
If we all took on board JMs personal opinions (and of course you're entitled to them JM, before you pipe up), then all of the solicitors in Stafford (who are situated in some fantastic historic buildings bytheway, but that's another matter) would all die on their arse (excuse my French) and the people whom live in Stafford, that work for companies like FrisbeeSolicitors, would suffer!

Good luck and keep the thread updated, interesting.

 

[db]

i have used FrisbySolicitors on two occasions for selling and buying houses and they were really good.

thanks for letting me know your experience - this is exactly the sort of thing i'm after

i have to say, going by jonty's previous posts, i do trust his judgement in affairs such as this, so i will certainly be looking farther afield than just stafford when deciding on a solicitor.. however, it would be nice to keep it local, so the more reports i hear from people (especially those who have used the same company more than once, such as you have done) the better

Good luck and keep the thread updated, interesting.

will do! i'm sure i'm not the only person to have been in this situation, and surely won't be the last, so hopefully it will be useful to others as well as helping me & the long-suffering ms. db out

 

[Gramaisc]

To be fair to Mr Marwood, he seems to have been suggesting that a local solicitor may not always be the ideal choice should any peculiar problems occur - no doubt, they'll be OK if everything goes smoothly, though..

 

[tek-monkey]

I had loads of reccomendations for Janet Grundy, so went there. Things went wrong, nothing moved for months, and I spent every lunchtime and evening phoning round chasing people. Then one day my solicitor dissapeared, I called in to be told she no longer worked there. Janet herself took over and suddenly everything went smoothly again!

Unfortunately she then moved to Frisbee I believe? Now I've never used them, but from the hash my made of my GFs mortgage a few years back I'd avoid them like the plague. What this tells you is personal experience is only relative to that persons situation!

 

[Glam]

Congratulations on your engagement DB x. I used Mark Redlar & co, when I bought this place,no problems with them at all.

 

[fatfrog]

I sold a house that I rented out to a friend...In a practical sense I did not find it any different to selling though an agent other than we had direct contact. In terms of the value of the house..I had 3 agents come round and give me valuations and my friend was there at the time, we then deducted half of the total saving from not using an agent, off the price of the house (hope that makes sence)

I used 1st solicitors based in Park Street who were great...i have used them twice now and Nigel Rostanze had a set fee.

I do agree that you are in a strong position to maybe get a better deal elsewhere as if there is no emotion involved you can do some hard negotiaitng but if you like the house and the price is right and above all you are all level headed then it could be ideal.

My strong advice would be to try and take the emotions of friendship out of it if you can ...anything can go wrong and it would be a shame to fall out which could very easily happen. My friend and I had both bought and sold house before and so both had a certain mindset about it.

I wish you all the best and hope it all works out for you

 

[db]

I sold a house that I rented out to a friend...In a practical sense I did not find it any different to selling though an agent other than we had direct contact. In terms of the value of the house..I had 3 agents come round and give me valuations and my friend was there at the time, we then deducted half of the total saving from not using an agent, off the price of the house (hope that makes sence)

perfect sense, ta

My strong advice would be to try and take the emotions of friendship out of it if you can ...anything can go wrong and it would be a shame to fall out which could very easily happen. My friend and I had both bought and sold house before and so both had a certain mindset about it.

i think i've overstated the friendship element of this story! he's a friend-of-a-friend - the sort of person that i only bump into a couple of times a year, so there is no huge emotional investment or anything..

that being said, he's a lovely chap, with a lovely wife & little 'un (very little - not long born, hence them needing to move to a bigger house) so i have absolutely no doubt in my mind that he won't try to take advantage of the situation at all..

i suppose i should have just said "advice for buying privately" rather than "buying from a friend"

I wish you all the best and hope it all works out for you

thanks very much, the advice and support in this thread has been very impressive so far!

 

[tek-monkey]

that being said, he's a lovely chap, with a lovely wife & little 'un (very little - not long born, hence them needing to move to a bigger house) so i have absolutely no doubt in my mind that he won't try to take advantage of the situation at all.

Is soon-to-be-mrs-db aware that if you buy this house its too small for kids? Or is this your get-out clause?

 

[db]

Is soon-to-be-mrs-db aware that if you buy this house its too small for kids? Or is this your get-out clause?

i don't need a get-out clause - we both want kids, so it's all good on that front obviously, i say that now - i might change my tune when one is sicking all over me at 2:00am on a monday lol..

but yeah, initially we had this naïve, fanciful idea that we would buy a 4 bed house on walton or something, for exactly the reasons you allude to, and never have to move again lol.. speaking to mortgage advisors soon put the kibosh on that idea, though, unless we wanted to live in some dog-rough part of stafford.. so we've had to swallow our pride and accept that the first foot on the ladder will be just that - a little house to start us off, then we can look to upgrade in the near future

 

[Gramaisc]

we both want kids

Have you considered re-homing, rather than breeding from scratch?

 

[Hothouse Flower]

I know that you have had lots of advice on here but here is my little voice for what it is worth.

it makes good sense for the seller as he does not have to pay estate agent fees and can save him thousands of pounds. But what is in it for you?
Well....unless you get the house below the usual cost ....you gain nothing.

It always amazes me that some just buy the first house they look at. Ask you girlfriend ....when she wants a dress...does she buy the first dress in the first shop? Do you buy the first car in the showroom?
Yet when what is the most expensive purchase they make, ( a house) most people don't shop around.

So, after looking at lots of houses and you still want to buy that one then you need a mortgage.

If you go to a bank or building society they will only offer what they have.

FIND AN INDEPENANT FINANCIAL ADVISOR.
They are obliged to find the best deal for you.

Or go to www.moneysavingexpert.com and go to the mortgage section.

When you have found the house they will advise on surveyors.
There are several different surveys but ALWAYS pay more for a full structural survey. It's madness not to.

When choosing a solicitor it's my advice to choose a local one. They know first hand of all the local goings on and will be in the know of local developments in nuances to the area.

Moving house costs money and lots of it so buy the biggest house you can afford now so that you don't have to move so often.

When you move, you may be tempted to do it yourself with friends and vans.
DONT. Do yourself a favour, use Horsleys. Worth every penny in my opinion.

Good luck.

 

[db]

I know that you have had lots of advice on here but here is my little voice for what it is worth.

it's worth just as much as all the others - loads!

it makes good sense for the seller as he does not have to pay estate agent fees and can save him thousands of pounds. But what is in it for you?
Well....unless you get the house below the usual cost ....you gain nothing.

i thought as much.. people keep saying "oh, you'll save loads of money!" but they can never be more specific than that.. as far as i can see, i still have to pay for all the usual things (which you mention below) so, yeah, the only way i would save money would be if the seller passes on his savings to me & sells the house at a cheaper price!

fortunately, this will be the case with any luck - as i say, they're a lovely couple, and they are eager to sell to someone they know as the house has some sentimental value to them, so they quite like the idea of knowing who it's going to/being able to pop round for a cuppa/etc.

It always amazes me that some just buy the first house they look at. Ask you girlfriend ....when she wants a dress...does she buy the first dress in the first shop? Do you buy the first car in the showroom?
Yet when what is the most expensive purchase they make, ( a house) most people don't shop around.

oh, don't worry, we're doing plenty of shopping around! everyone loves a nose round someone's else's house, innit

So, after looking at lots of houses and you still want to buy that one then you need a mortgage.

If you go to a bank or building society they will only offer what they have.

FIND AN INDEPENANT FINANCIAL ADVISOR.
They are obliged to find the best deal for you.

Or go to www.moneysavingexpert.com and go to the mortgage section.

interesting.. i always check out moneysavingexpert.com before i make any purchase, and i did just that before we approached the high-street lenders, but it wasn't terribly helpful to be honest.. when i used their mortgage calculator, it offered us about £25k less than any of the banks that we went to see in person!

can you recommend any independent financial advisors?

When you have found the house they will advise on surveyors.
There are several different surveys but ALWAYS pay more for a full structural survey. It's madness not to.

i agree.. the quotes we have had suggest there is only a few hundred quid difference in the survey prices, so we had already agreed that it would be daft not to go for the full monty when it provides that little bit more security with such a big purchase!

When choosing a solicitor it's my advice to choose a local one. They know first hand of all the local goings on and will be in the know of local developments in nuances to the area.

well, that's what i thought, but john marwood seems to know quite a bit in this area (from past posts, not just this thread) and he suggests otherwise, and tek-monkey has had a very bad experience, so this is one area where i would definitely appreciate hearing people's experiences!

Moving house costs money and lots of it so buy the biggest house you can afford now so that you don't have to move so often.

we'd love to, but there are other things to consider than just house size, innit! if we were buying a house "for life", as it were, then we would want it to be in the oakridge/walton catchment area.. yes, i know they are falling down the league tables or whatever, but my 3 siblings and I went there, my nieces/nephews go there, etc. so initially, that was our intention, and those are the houses we were looking at..

however, houses in the area we are now considering are literally half the price, so as i mentioned earlier we have thought long & hard about it and decided that we shouldn't stretch ourselves to breaking-point by trying to afford a big house in the area we want right away, but rather buy a little house to get us on the ladder and move once we need to

When you move, you may be tempted to do it yourself with friends and vans.
DONT. Do yourself a favour, use Horsleys. Worth every penny in my opinion.

remember that there's only the 2 of us, and we've been renting for 7 years so are quite used to moving about! yes, moving house is a ballache, but it's easily do-able when there's only 2 people's stuff, and you're only moving belongings, not fixtures & fittings.. plus, the houses we are looking at are literally round the corner from where we are now, so it seems a bit daft getting horsleys in to do it!

that being said, moving house is probably my least favourite thing in the whole world, and i am incredibly, incredibly lazy, so it's not something i'm writing off altogether lol.. how much do they charge? i would imagine they could fit all our stuff in a single small lorry, and do the whole thing in a few hours!

Good luck.

thanks it's early days yet - we've got a lot of shopping around to do, and when we do buy it won't be for another 6 to 9 months - so all the information in this thread is gold and we really appreciate it

 

[hop]

There are generally a few simple checks you can do yourself which cost you nothing, but might set off a few alarm bells.

See if you can find the building control page on the councils website, if you are buying in stafford then have a look here.

Things to check for is have controlled works been registered, if not it could be a warning sign that the workmanship may be suspect.

Basically certain works should be inspected by the building control office, unless they are done by a workman with the necessary skills and knowledge of building legislation that they can self certify the work. So if you have new windows fitted they should be registered, you could get a general builder to fit the windows and then get building control round to verify that everyone has been done correctly or get someone who is a member of fensa to fit them. In the latter case the tradesman can simply notify building control since it is deemed he knows what he his doing and will have done the work property.

To some people this seems like burden or red tape exercise. But if you consider that a window can have a structural element in a house you wouldn't want a replacement which may cause damage to the property. e.g some older windows may bear part of the weight of the brickwork above them, if these were replaced and a cheap product then damage may ensure.

The same goes for things like boilers which should be notified to building control, generally this would be done by a member of Gas Safe. However in every trade you find a great deal of practitioners who are not upto date with current legislation or cut corners to line their own pockets.

Generally things like conservatories do not require planning permission, however if they have fixed heating on the same circuit as the main central heating then they do require permission.

So if you have an idea about what work has been carried out, or have a suspicion work has been done in the past 10 years check if this work should be notified and then have a look if it actually was.

Your solicitor will do all of these checks anyway, but it is useful to carry out yourself since if you have the knowledge upfront you may decide to walk away from a purchase and avoid spending thousands on surveys and legal expenses for a house that proved to be no good.