Do the elderly deserve proper standards of care and decency

joshua

joshua

Well-Known Forumite
Ignoring the rolf and gary aspect for a moment, do you feel the same way for elderly prisoners who are in for "normal" crimes ?
 
Katniss

Katniss

Well-Known Forumite
There used to be an art shop next to the closed Bella Italia and they told me they had purchased some Rolf Harris paintings as an investment which must be worthless now.
 
proactive

proactive

Enjoying a drop of red.
Katniss said:
There used to be an art shop next to the closed Bella Italia and they told me they had purchased some Rolf Harris paintings as an investment which must be worthless now.
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More likely they'll shoot up in value when he drops off his perch.
 
tek-monkey

tek-monkey

wanna see my snake?
Withnail said:
The punishment is the loss of liberty. You may not think this enough, but it doesn't alter the fact that that is the punishment.

Prisoners should ergo be treated no worse than anyone else.
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But should they be treated any better? And, when funding is at an all time low, should the prisoners get it rather than the homeless/vulnerable/disadvantaged? To me the prisoners should always be last on the list for any welfare because they chose their path, everyone else should be sorted out first and we are nowhere near even scraping the surface of that.
 
Gramaisc

Gramaisc

Forum O. G.
I once struggled to trace an old friend that I believed to be in a care home somewhere - it was not easy, and it was really only the assistance of @Alan B'Stard 's father that finally got me on the right track and put us back in contact, via the funeral director that had handled his wife's funeral and from there, the solicitor that they put me onto and this finally enabled me to contact my friend's niece and discover where he was. The trail started in Somerset and ended in Halesowen.

It occurred to me that it would have been a lot easier to track him down if he had been in prison for murder.
 
Withnail

Withnail

Well-Known Forumite
tek-monkey said:
But should they be treated any better?
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Certainly not - but they should not, on principle, be treated any worse. If you find this unpalatable, then you have to change the way we punish miscreants.

But you must know that we have settled upon this way of punishment on the back of a history of doing unspeakable things to people. Until absurdly recently.

You always have to make a choice in these matters.
 
Withnail

Withnail

Well-Known Forumite
Floss said:
Unfortunately peodophiles (sic) cannot be cured,..
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This is a very interesting half of a sentence.

Not much less than fifty years ago homosexuality was outlawed in this country. Many notable, and less so notable. people were imprisoned for this crime.

Homosexuality cannot be cured - it is a manifestation of the human condition. It is no longer a criminal act to act upon homosexual desires and so we no longer imprison homosexuals.

This, i very much hope we can all agree, is very much a Good Thing.

It does us all some good to walk a mile in a man's shoes, even when they aren't very nice shoes.

I don't like to think of these kind of things much, but when i am forced to do so, i try to think of them in ways that are real - i try to make analogies that humanize rather than demonize.

Imagine, if you will, that heterosexuality was outlawed tomorrow...

All heterosexual feelings are now against the law.

Glam is now barred from expressing her desire for David Essex, Marwood must keep his feelings for Jade to himself - they are both now renegades.

So, now that heterosexuality is against the law, you, as law abiding citizens, will abide by that law, yes?

There is, of course, a huge limit to this equivalence - adults can consent whereas children cannot - but we ask of those that desire to desire not. This they can't do, it is a manifestation of the human condition as much as any other. We might wish it weren't but we are wishless.

“Did I request thee, Maker, from my clay
To mould me man? Did I solicit thee
From darkness to promote me?”
 
Floss

Floss

Well-Known Forumite
Withnail said:
This is a very interesting half of a sentence.

Not much less than fifty years ago homosexuality was outlawed in this country. Many notable, and less so notable. people were imprisoned for this crime.

Homosexuality cannot be cured - it is a manifestation of the human condition. It is no longer a criminal act to act upon homosexual desires and so we no longer imprison homosexuals.

This, i very much hope we can all agree, is very much a Good Thing.

It does us all some good to walk a mile in a man's shoes, even when they aren't very nice shoes.

I don't like to think of these kind of things much, but when i am forced to do so, i try to think of them in ways that are real - i try to make analogies that humanize rather than demonize.

Imagine, if you will, that heterosexuality was outlawed tomorrow...

All heterosexual feelings are now against the law.

Glam is now barred from expressing her desire for David Essex, Marwood must keep his feelings for Jade to himself - they are both now renegades.

So, now that heterosexuality is against the law, you, as law abiding citizens, will abide by that law, yes?

There is, of course, a huge limit to this equivalence - adults can consent whereas children cannot - but we ask of those that desire to desire not. This they can't do, it is a manifestation of the human condition as much as any other. We might wish it weren't but we are wishless.

“Did I request thee, Maker, from my clay
To mould me man? Did I solicit thee
From darkness to promote me?”
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It's interesting what you say, but also psychopaths and sociopaths cannot be cured.
 
tek-monkey

tek-monkey

wanna see my snake?
Whilst I agree they can't be cured, isn't their acceptance into society on the provision that they don't act on urges that harm others?* It's one thing to want to do something, but quite another to act on it. I suspect there are many paodophiles out there who have the thoughts but suppress the urges.



* Although harm is not always the yardstick, or rather not harm of society in a personal way.
 
Floss

Floss

Well-Known Forumite
tek-monkey said:
Whilst I agree they can't be cured, isn't their acceptance into society on the provision that they don't act on urges that harm others?* It's one thing to want to do something, but quite another to act on it. I suspect there are many paodophiles out there who have the thoughts but suppress the urges.



* Although harm is not always the yardstick, or rather not harm of society in a personal way.
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an acceptance by the authorities yes, as they do get let out on licence but I don't know anyone who would accept one living next to them, there is a website or app I'm sure I read about once where you can tell if there's one living near you it maybe 'Sarah's Law' or something like that.
 
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